Education: Just another brick in the wall.

Except this time the wall is being dismantled.

"More than 150,000 adults could be robbed of a "second chance" in education because of plans to make them pay the full cost of their courses, civil servants have warned.

At present, further education students over the age of 24 only have to meet half the cost, while under-19s are not charged. But from next August, the Government intends to compel all over-24s taking A-levels or access courses to pay the full amount, and is introducing loans up to the value of £3,700 to cover the cost. Only those seeking basic qualifications in literacy and numeracy will receive grants which they do not have to pay back."

Lost for words. How many people who left school with few qualifications used F.E. to better themselves and society? They seem to be hell bent on marketising everything. The Police, Justice, Education, Health, Social Provisions.

Link Now working

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...n-7918002.html

Originally Posted by KorkyKat

Lost for words. How many people who left school with few qualifications used F.E. to better themselves and society?

Well I did but went to the OU, where I had to pay.

I don't see what the problem is. They should have worked harder at school, then to realise that later, and then expect the state (that's me and thee Korky) to fund their desire to better themselves is a bit rich.

Not that simple. Some youngsters have to leave school early for a number of reasons - parents unwell, violence in the home, lack of money etc.

Meanwhile lets throw a few billion more smackers into quantitative easing.

This from the bottom of the article.

"Margaret Green, 49, from Golcar, Huddersfield, left school at the age of 16. She worked in a carpet factory for 23 years and is now a Pharmacy Assistant at the Huddersfield Royal Infirmary. With funding from her local NHS trust, she completed a part-time Pharmacy Apprenticeship with Bradford College in March

"If I'd had to pay for it myself in today's climate I really couldn't have afforded it. I would have just carried on doing what I'd been doing for years. The VQ [Vocational Qualification] has given me so much more confidence. Now I can go forward with my learning, I'm not afraid of it any more. I left school at 16. All those years ago if you had thoughts of Higher Education or university your mother and father would say, 'You can get that out of your head, that's not for people like us. You need to go out and make a living.' So that's what I did. I've worked full-time since leaving school. After having each one of my children I went straight back to work. Then I was given this opportunity last year so I just bit the bullet. I want to do another apprenticeship next year so I can be a pharmacy technician. If the funding were to change and I couldn't do another course I'd be absolutely gutted".

Originally Posted by KorkyKat

Not that simple.

Not that simple for who? I left school just after my 16th birthday (my mother died) without taking any examinations whatsoever. I didn't expect the state to continue paying for my foolishness.

The current Yr 9 are going to have to stay in school until they are 18, I wonder if that has something to do with this. I agree it is harsh, but it would depend on the types of courses they are focusing on.

One thing about educating adults is that they are better able to look after and educate their own offspring. Better educated parents equals better educated children as well.

It has a double benefit.

Mmm, a bit torn at first but I agree with KK.
Most of my qualifications came after school but paid for by employers, so I got it free - I suppose employer tax breaks were funded from the public purse there; so in the spirit of not pulling up the rope ladder after me I think things should stay as they are.
People respond to education later in life for all sorts of reasons and they are often the most driven and committed. I also agree with the sentiment about the banks.
I don't agree with the slant of the news item. It implies that going from a carpet factory to a hospital is some some sort of promotion. Carpet factories employ any number of skilled and professional people; what did Margaret do for 23 years, test the carpet for burns?

Europe is in decline, the developing world is developing, catching up and over taking, in bygone eras the weak would perish, now they are supported by the state, but lowly educated, to the point this week where they reported that 2 children in every class are "starving".

I don't have any answers other than in the wild the weak are predated.

A report this week showed that 1.7% of teenagers in this country reach the highest standard of maths, versus 5% of Germans and 26% of Chinese (albeit in only in one of of their cities).

So perhaps, kids and parents should be less bothered by whether or not they like their teachers, forget their phones and computer games and set their eyes on the prize and knuckle down to some work, then adult learning won't be an issue?

Sounds harsh and right wing, or maybe kick up the arse-ish but what's the alternative?

Originally Posted by Scooby

.... but what's the alternative?

Do a Greece? Stick our collective fingers in our ears for another few years until the shit really hits the fan ?

Originally Posted by Scooby

A report this week showed that 1.7% of teenagers in this country reach the highest standard of maths, versus 5% of Germans and 26% of Chinese (albeit in only in one of of their cities).

That's nothing.
I heard earlier today that nearly half of all schoolchildren perform below average!
Something must be done!

Originally Posted by Kneerly Down

That's nothing.
I heard earlier today that nearly half of all schoolchildren perform below average!
Something must be done!

Apparently some thing is being planned to be done (however if it actually happens is a different matter).

But as per usual, the Unions, rather than saying that pupils should be taught correctly and understand the basics, decide that it is an attack on teachers to test pupils on basic grammar -

Grammar tests are attack on teachers, says Union - Telegraph

Also regarding maths -

Pupils to study maths up to 18 to address numeracy crisis - Telegraph

It's all gone wrong.

Why, only the other day, I was on the bus, trying to engage a rather well-turned out young man in a conversation about the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, and Putnam's take on its relevance to Quantum Logic.

It was as if I was on another planet




EPR paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quantum logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hilary Putnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by BananaMan

It's all gone wrong.

Why, only the other day, I was on the bus, trying to engage a rather well-turned out young man in a conversation about the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, and Putnam's take on its relevance to Quantum Logic.

It was as if I was on another planet




EPR paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quantum logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hilary Putnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you had been, then maybe they would have understood

Ultimately this is about values and principles. Like the National Health Service, you either agree with it completely, with all its faults, or not at all. I subscribe to the belief that education is a life long process and should be free to all. If people are content to have taxes deducted for military expenditure without ever making a fuss it seems perverse that anybody would wish to question or deny the very thing that enables a human being to be informed, enlightened and cultured.

"Education is more than a luxury; it is a responsibility that society owes to itself." Robin Cook

I'm currently studying with a degree with the OCU. They've frozen their fees for the next 5 years. Plus nothings changed with funding really. If you take one degree course you have to pay full rate for the second and have done for years.

I've paid for every bit of my additional education. What's really needed in adult education is for the local colleges to stop concentrating on school leavers and actually offer some worthwhile courses, with real qualifications, rather than these '10 weeks introduction to how to use a computer mouse' or 'conversational french' i.e. we'll teach you in a year how to count to ten and say yeas, no and please.

I tried to look at degree courses or other higher educational with my local colleges and there were no day release or evening classes anymore. They honestly expected you to give up work.