Moto Gymkhana

I recently saw a mislabeled YTvid of this event and was thinking OMG look at the way he was flipping that 600 left to right through the cones, then it struck me, no counter steering.

Any comments?



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True, in these conpetitions it's all done by magik and wishing very hard













PS First vid, 1:09, watch carefully at the end of his braking

It would be interesting to slow the vid down enough so that you could correlate the timing of his bar movements with his direction changes. Shouldn't be beyond the wit of man, but it's beyond mine.

Can anybody help? - or link to a slo-mo version of similar?

V impressive, anyway.

Originally Posted by Wossname

It would be interesting to slow the vid down enough so that you could correlate the timing of his bar movements with his direction changes. Shouldn't be beyond the wit of man, but it's beyond mine.

Can anybody help? - or link to a slo-mo version of similar?

V impressive, anyway.

Sensible answer?

Mid-turn the fr wheel will be turned into the direction of the turn. To lift the bike will require more turn that way, so difficult to see.

This comparison video shows counter steering, but the bike tends to be leaned over less and drifting (rear wheel sliding) to keep inside the cones.

Originally Posted by silentwalker

[video=youtube;20XsaHpRQC8]This comparison video shows counter steering, but the bike tends to be leaned over less and drifting (rear wheel sliding) to keep inside the cones.

That's not countersteering, that's oversteering, like you'd get in a car that's drifting.

Countersteering is steering one way to get the bike to lean the other way. Once the bike is leaning it either turns or falls over. A simple concept that seems to elude many.

Originally Posted by Horse

Sensible answer?

Mid-turn the fr wheel will be turned into the direction of the turn. To lift the bike will require more turn that way, so difficult to see.

Well I had a think about it and I see that counter steering is just to initiate a leaning to the opposing side to the wheels pointing direction.

I'm guessing the first video is demonstrating how counter steering is used to stop the bike falling over, as the rider has settled a balance between bike being flipped upright again against the bike going further downwards in the lean.

I then think he is accelerating or front breaking to flip the bike to the other side as it does look like he is turning the wheel into the turn to again counter act the lean vs falling down on the flip side.

Originally Posted by saga_lout

That's not countersteering, that's oversteering, like you'd get in a car that's drifting.

Hence the theory (which I'm happy to spout but would probably be cr@pping myself in real life) that a rear wheel slide actually turns the bike tighter so is nothing to be concerned about

Originally Posted by silentwalker

Well I had a think about it and I see that counter steering is just to initiate a leaning to the opposing side to the wheels pointing direction.

It's a two-stage process:
1. CS initiates the turn; press forward in the intended direction, press quicker to steer quicker, press for longer to lean further, stop pressing when you're leaning
2. When you relax the pressure the front wheel will turn 'into' the turn; let it. At this point you'll need to be applying power to hold the bike 'up' against gravity trying to pull it down

Originally Posted by silentwalker

I'm guessing the first video is demonstrating how counter steering is used to stop the bike falling over, as the rider has settled a balance between bike being flipped upright again against the bike going further downwards in the lean.

I'm guessing the video is just showing how good the guy is - it's not intended as an instructional vid.

Originally Posted by silentwalker

I then think he is accelerating or front breaking to flip the bike to the other side

See above '2'. On-road, applying power will help straighten your line out of a bend, hopefully following the road too

Originally Posted by silentwalker

as it does look like he is turning the wheel into the turn to again counter act the lean

As above, it's not an instructional vid.; the action is slow quick I'd be wary of trying to 'read' too much from it.

Originally Posted by Horse

...It's a two-stage process:
1. CS initiates the turn; press forward in the intended direction, press quicker to steer quicker, press for longer to lean further, stop pressing when you're leaning
2. When you relax the pressure the front wheel will turn 'into' the turn; let it. At this point you'll need to be applying power to hold the bike 'up' against gravity trying to pull it down...

I seldom apply power in a turn these days. I usually free wheel, especially if the bike is leaning a long way over. (Countersteering isn't just about powered two wheelers, it applies to push bikes as well and I don't want my inside pedal hitting the ground. )

Originally Posted by saga_lout

I seldom apply power in a turn these days. I usually free wheel, especially if the bike is leaning a long way over . . . and I don't want my inside pedal hitting the ground. )

Back to . . .

Originally Posted by Horse

magik and wishing very hard

Originally Posted by Horse

Back to . . .

Originally Posted by Horse

magik and wishing very hard

Really?

I knew I was gifted but magic...


Erm...Seriously, it isn't the power that "holds the bike up" in the corners.

Originally Posted by saga_lout

Really?

I knew I was gifted but magic...


Erm...Seriously, it isn't the power that "holds the bike up" in the corners.

I've tried to answer Silent's questions simply. Your turn now

AAMOI, on your bicycle what happens if you riding in a continuous constant circle at the same lean angle, but without pedalling?

Originally Posted by Horse

I've tried to answer Silent's questions simply. Your turn now

AAMOI, on your bicycle what happens if you riding in a continuous constant circle at the same lean angle, but without pedalling?

The question doesn't make sense. The lean angle is determined by the size of the circle and the speed. Without pedalling the bike slows down so either the circle gets smaller or the lean angle gets smaller. It still doesn't need power to "hold it up".

As for answering the question simply, I did that up there ^^ Here it is again in case you missed it.

Originally Posted by saga_lout

Countersteering is steering one way to get the bike to lean the other way...

Countersteering really is a simple idea. I don't know why people feel the need to complicate it.

Originally Posted by Horse

Hence the theory (which I'm happy to spout but would probably be cr@pping myself in real life) that a rear wheel slide actually turns the bike tighter so is nothing to be concerned about

I imagine it would be fine as long as you could be sure the rear wheel was not about to regain traction and high-side you.

Originally Posted by Horse

Hence the theory (which I'm happy to spout but would probably be cr@pping myself in real life) that a rear wheel slide actually turns the bike tighter so is nothing to be concerned about

I’ve not thought on sliding the rear wheel yet (vid3), but as the bike is not going more into the lean I can only assume the rear slides outwards altering the angle of movement direction force. QED tighter turn.

2. When you relax the pressure the front wheel will turn 'into' the turn; let it. At this point you'll need to be applying power to hold the bike 'up' against gravity trying to pull it down

No, doesn’t make sense as the rate of fall due to gravity is a constant. As tested on the moon. If taking counter steering force as a constant factor too, two bikes both with the same front wheel angle into the same lean, the faster bike should be forced more upright against gravity.
Feather & Hammer Drop on Moon - YouTube