What does flux smell like?

Originally Posted by fulltilt

I was under the impression that heating solder released flux? But no matter, it hasn't crashed since I did the reflux a couple of days ago so it's definitely better than it was, at least for now.

Depends on the solder. Traditionally solder is an alloy of tin and lead (not anymore of course - no lead anymore) but most wire type solder is what they call "flux cored" ie the solder is extruded with flux embedded in the centre. A lot of flow soldering type processes rely on the two parts to be joined being "pre-tinned" ie coated with solder before jointing with a flow of liquid solder. I don't know exactly what they use for BGA techniques but it is probably a solder paste which may contain an amount of flux, but again it's probably done pre-tinned. It helps to keep process temperatures down.

Originally Posted by fulltilt

I doubt it can do much damage, the console should turn itself off before the chips get too hot. Plus I'm hoping that the reflux will cause me to have to do that less, thereby prolonging the life when compared to having to continue as I was, overheating every time I turned the thing on.

If the console shuts down after the point at which the solder gets hot enough to melt, chances are it's doing some damage to the silicon substrate. Not loads granted because the chips need to be able to survive the solder process in the first place, but then the solder process will be much better controlled anyway. To be fair, if it gets a bit more life out of a poorly made device then fair play, but if you have to do this repeatedly you WILL shorten the chip lifespan.

Originally Posted by Kebab The Cat

Is the theory that the device gets hot enough to remelt the solder, thus fixing the dry joint?

Pretty much. They say it was a problem in the early days with the board flexing as it heated and cooled which broke the joint, so it might not be exactly what you'd term a 'dry' joint, just a weak one.

Originally Posted by Loz

If the console shuts down after the point at which the solder gets hot enough to melt, chances are it's doing some damage to the silicon substrate.

It probably sounds worse than it is, the power doesn't just wink out, the console is still on but cuts power to the overheating chips. Since it does it with the fans unplugged, there must be a temperature sensor rather than a fan speed sensor, which I'm guessing means power is cut before any damage is done.

if you have to do this repeatedly you WILL shorten the chip lifespan.

No doubt, although I'd guess that repeatedly doing it would lower the chances to zero of successfully remaking the join before it killed the chip. Certainly, the more I did it, the more temporary it seemed to get.

I've written this machine off anyway, I no longer trust it enough to invest any more money in it so modded it last week. If and when it either dies or I find a game worth resubscribing to Live for, I'll just buy a new console, I don't think the new ones are subject to the same design and manufacturing flaws as my release model.

I can't help thinking that if this is a common problem which is known to be caused by a manufacturing defect then you have a claim under the Sale of Goods act, fitness for purpose etc.

Originally Posted by saga_lout

I can't help thinking that if this is a common problem which is known to be caused by a manufacturing defect then you have a claim under the Sale of Goods act, fitness for purpose etc.

True, but that's effort and you're not guaranteed to win - how long is a 'reasonable' period for a (then) £300 games console to live? It was from Amazon or Play, I couldn't exactly walk into the shop and demand a refund either.

Unfortunately mine died outside of the 3 year warranty meaning I didn't have a claim against MS directly and it wasn't worth claiming on the house insurance for £100 or whatever it's worth now.

Anyway, I fancied opening it up and having a go at fixing it as I was no longer buying games for it at that point. SWMBO wanted it as a media extender for the bedroom which I hoped would be a light enough load that the machine wouldn't keep failing, but that wasn't the case unfortunately.

My soldering is a bit rusty these days but circuit board repairs used to be part of my job. If you have a dry joint then it needs to be resoldered, as in remove the old solder and replace with fresh. Flux is to help create the bond and needs to be in contact with the surfaces to be joined, if you don't remove the old solder first then the flux may not reach the right places and you'll get another dry joint. If all the flux burns off during soldering there's nothing wrong as long as a good joint has been made with enough heat.
What you are doing sounds like a poor bodge, probably the best available because it's impractical to do it properly but is still likely to fail.
Still worth a try though.

Originally Posted by Metz

If you have any luck with this.... let me know I've got a 360 with a RRoD problem....

I've played through COD:MW, HaloDST and Darksiders since doing this fix, that's a lot of hours and the 360 hasn't seen the RRoD once. At the risk of jinxing myself, I'd say the flux (and possibly the xclamp replacement) has fixed it. I'll subscribe to this thread and post if it dies, otherwise assume it's job done.

Originally Posted by fulltilt

I'd say the flux (and possibly the xclamp replacement) has fixed it.

Do you have any kind of guide you followed for this? And what about the x-clamp fix? I'll give all this a go myself, see if I can recover the yet-again RROD xbox.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Metz

Do you have any kind of guide you followed for this? And what about the x-clamp fix? I'll give all this a go myself, see if I can recover the yet-again RROD xbox.

No guide as such, have a look on Youtube. Some vids will say you have to drill holes in the metal chassis, but you'd only have to do that if you buy the longer bolts - I didn't.

I'm not even sure you'd need to replace the x-clamps, I'd just reflux the GPU to start with. Of course, since the x-clamp would need to come off in order to remove the GPU's heat sink, you might as well replace it with bolts.

Originally Posted by fulltilt

I'll subscribe to this thread and post if it dies

The missus killed the 360 today. It's been fine all this time, then the first time she's touched it in months, it dies. Do wives have warranties, I'm taking mine back

Originally Posted by fulltilt

The missus killed the 360 today. It's been fine all this time, then the first time she's touched it in months, it dies. Do wives have warranties, I'm taking mine back

She is most likely surrounded by a cloud of nem. Electronics are doomed around her.