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Thread: Broken chevrons

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken chevrons


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    'Failed to apply brakes'

    How on earth would they ever know? Weird . . .

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    Really Bored tenbears's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    'Failed to apply brakes'
    ... if at all?!!!!

    But on points of road law, I think we've established one could enter the cross hatching and that it isn't illegal to filter up to a set of lights.
    It must then be a straightforward RoW violation, surely.

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by tenbears View Post
    ... if at all?!!!!

    But on points of road law, I think we've established one could enter the cross hatching and that it isn't illegal to filter up to a set of lights.
    It must then be a straightforward RoW violation, surely.
    It does sound like you need legal advice, if only on how to present your case if you self-represent.

    Did you have any legal cover through home insurance, AA, etc.?

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Think traffic entering a main road has to give way to traffic already on the main road regardless off what direction it is travelling/side of road it is on. I had something similar going to work on my DT. Someone pulled out off their drive through a queue of traffic and didn't see me overtaking the queue.

    I got a letter six months later claiming for damage to the car as I shouldn't have been filtering. I pointed out that I hadn't been involved in a crash with the insured person and filtering is illegal. The owner had lent their car to the person collided with and the driver wasn't insured. Never heard anything more.

    Just had a look in the latest TSRGD Diagram 1040 Part of the carriageway which vehicular traffic should not enter unless it is seen by the driver to be safe to do so

    So not breaking any law if you cross it.
    Last edited by GuzziPaul; 10-10-16 at 12:33. Reason: Added TSRGD

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  6. #20
    Really Bored tenbears's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    It does sound like you need legal advice, if only on how to present your case if you self-represent.

    Did you have any legal cover through home insurance, AA, etc.?
    Yup, looks like it. Claimant is the vehicle owner, it was his partner who was driving at the time, and she hadn't informed her insurers of the event over two weeks later ... which made me think she wasn't covered. It's a mad, bad world out there kiddies

    Think traffic entering a main road has to give way to traffic already on the main road regardless off what direction it is travelling/side of road it is on
    That's how I'd understood it, too. Cheers.

    Rule 128
    Double white lines where the line nearest to you is broken. This means you may cross the lines to overtake if it is safe, provided you can complete the manoeuvre before reaching a solid white line on your side. White direction arrows on the road indicate that you need to get back onto your side of the road.

    Rule 129
    Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
    Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

    Rule 130
    Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

    If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
    If the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.
    Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)

    ... AVIVA can't be trusted on matters of law. Maddnes one's own insurers would stitch one up. And the irony was the 3rd party's insurers, Hastings, came back to me with an 80 requote and kept the 5 years no claims.
    Last edited by tenbears; 14-10-16 at 10:09.

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Apologies for resurrecting an ancient thread (and for rambling), I was searching for more info on broken diagonals

    First of all - How did it work out Tenbears?


    What made me curious was Derbyshire's love of the things. Sometimes their use seems ambiguous:
    There are stretches of white solid white line (obviously no overtaking), with stretches of broken diagonals in between with 'return to the left' arrows as you approach the next solid white.

    The highway code says only if "enter if safe and necessary to do so" which kind of implies you should keep out (filtering probably wouldn't be judged necessary)
    So why the return to the left arrows if the diagonals mean 'you probably shouldn't be there anyway'?
    its almost as if they expect you to overtake on the diagonals, otherwise why not continue the solid line

    These things and the highway code seem ambiguous ( I guess at Matlock its to deter filtering because on some stretches the road is straight and no apparent hazard )

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    You've answered your own question...

    The highway code says only if "enter if safe and necessary to do so"

    So you CAN enter if you feel there's a need to do so.

    But you MUST not cross a solid white line (with some exceptions for turning right, or passing horse riders, cyclists and road maintenance vehicles doing less than 15 mph etc.).

    So you're moving from a permissive 'can cross' zone to a prohibitive 'don't cross' zone - hence the need for the toeing in arrows.

    Have a look at the white line either side of the diagonal stripes - it's actually a broken 'hazard line'. Now, read what the Highway Code says about crossing a broken hazard line.

    As for why they are there, from my reply three years ago: "But what are they there for? Almost inevitably to keep streams of traffic apart, often to protect something like a traffic island where pedestrians can cross, or a right turn refuge for turning vehicles."

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by inewham View Post
    The highway code says only if "enter if safe and necessary to do so" which kind of implies you should keep out (filtering probably wouldn't be judged necessary)
    Just to add to what Spin said, AFAIK "necessary" isn't defined, so you can pretty much make up your own reason. "To make progress", for example..

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by Scootabout View Post
    Just to add to what Spin said, AFAIK "necessary" isn't defined, so you can pretty much make up your own reason. "To make progress", for example..
    Nope, that's an excuse rather than a reason.

    Look at the cross hatched area as a HAZARD first and foremost - ask "why is it here? What's it for?". Then having had a ruddy good look and ONLY if you CANNOT see any risk in entering (or crossing completely over) the cross hatching, THEN ask "do I make any USEFUL progress?"

    Too many riders see them as a motorcycle overtaking lane (as I also said three years ago) and enter them without asking why they are there before they commit to overtaking - and find themselves in a pickle.

    As I pointed out (yep, three years ago) I watched a rider line up an overtake around the outside of an HGV on cross-hatchings, on a gentle left-hand bend. What he couldn't see - but I knew was there - were two pedestrian refuges. He was very lucky nothing was coming the other way, and was able to pass the wrong side of it when he spotted it mid-way through the overtake.

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    Nope, that's an excuse rather than a reason.

    Look at the cross hatched area as a HAZARD first and foremost - ask "why is it here? What's it for?". Then having had a ruddy good look and ONLY if you CANNOT see any risk in entering (or crossing completely over) the cross hatching, THEN ask "do I make any USEFUL progress?"

    Too many riders see them as a motorcycle overtaking lane (as I also said three years ago) and enter them without asking why they are there before they commit to overtaking - and find themselves in a pickle.

    As I pointed out (yep, three years ago) I watched a rider line up an overtake around the outside of an HGV on cross-hatchings, on a gentle left-hand bend. What he couldn't see - but I knew was there - were two pedestrian refuges. He was very lucky nothing was coming the other way, and was able to pass the wrong side of it when he spotted it mid-way through the overtake.
    Not disputing any of that, but I see that as the "can see that it is safe" part of the equation. I was focusing on the meaning of "necessary". How would you define it?

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by Scootabout View Post
    Not disputing any of that, but I see that as the "can see that it is safe" part of the equation. I was focusing on the meaning of "necessary". How would you define it?
    Actually, having re-read it, I think you've answered that, with the 'useful progress' bit... Damn, thought I'd scored a point there

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Too late now, but if 10 bears was at fault for being in the hatched area, how did the driver him him without also being in the area and being equally at fault?

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by chillitt View Post
    Too late now, but if 10 bears was at fault for being in the hatched area, how did the driver him him without also being in the area and being equally at fault?
    The other driver came out of a private driveway and was turning right.

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    The other driver came out of a private driveway and was turning right.
    Yes, but they should have gone left and turned round somewhere rather than cross the verboten section. If he cant ride there, she cant drive across it either.

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    Default Re: Broken chevrons

    Doesn't the long broken white line already indicate a hazard? It seems the broken white with diagonals does the same thing but then places the onus on the rider to prove it was "safe and necessary" which is almost certain to fail
    So given that it is difficult to prove "safe and neccessary" It is implied that it is do not enter except in an emergency

    So why have arrows implying its OK to enter now return to the left? Seemscontrary to the implication of the diagonals

    Its pedantry but it seems an overuse of signage and creates a precedent where if something goes wrong its almost certain to be your fault

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