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Thread: The US and guns - it gets worse

  1. #3841
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    Some of them remember that their 2000+ rifles were confiscated, and they were given 150 (IIRC) compensation. Same thing happened again after Dunblane with pistols. Tends to reinforce the US view that you cannot actually trust governments. Sorry for the victims, but making many more financial victims was not helpful.
    I can't find any Hungerford examples, but this BBC report suggests an average of over 600 per weapon after Dunblane.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/164402.stm

    Obviously an average covers a wide range, so was that representative and realistic? [1998 prices]

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    Should Get Out More ZRX61's Avatar
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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    I know you do, but our resident exported redneck does like to gloss over some facts ....


    Every year, 113,108 people are shot. Among those:

    • 36,383 people die from gun violence
    • 12,830 are murdered
    • 76,725 people survive gun injuries
    • 34,566 are injured in an attack
    • 22,274 die from suicide
    • 3,554 survive a suicide attempt
    • 496 are killed by legal intervention
    • 1,376 are shot by legal intervention
    • 295 die but the intent was unknown
    • 4,471 are shot but the intent is unknown
    • 509 women are killed by their husband or male dating partner*

    These stats taken from a 5 year average ...I expect he will focus on the lower average murder rate rather than the 10x greater number of those shot ....
    So I have more chance of being killed by a cop than a I do by some bloke with a rifle...

  3. #3843
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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    I can't find any Hungerford examples, but this BBC report suggests an average of over 600 per weapon after Dunblane.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/164402.stm

    Obviously an average covers a wide range, so was that representative and realistic? [1998 prices]
    My memory of the Hungerford is sketchy, I didnt have have any rifles to lose. After Dunblane there wa a (very short) list of pistols with a realistic price tag. Anything not on the list was a single price, 150. Tough shit if you had just paid 700 on something not on the list, then another 700 getting it modified.

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    So I have more chance of being killed by a cop than a I do by some bloke with a rifle...
    Bend it like Beckham. That's the only way you can arrive at that conclusion.

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    Feel free to point out the details in the story about how he obtained the gun... & it would appear shopping at Walmart isn't as dangerous as trying to car jack the customers. The perp is dead, everyone else is alive.... but you have to find a negative in the story.
    He stole it from his girlfriend. I had to dig a bit for that. Perhaps she failed to secure it from her lunatic boyfriend. OTOH, most of the mass shootings involved legally obtained weapons IIRC. Soooo, as I said, the obvious issue is that shitbags can obtain weapons readily. And legally. I suppose the person injured by him before he got shot is happy about the whole experience. Needless to say, I'm sure everyone that encountered him was thrilled with the experience. But you managed to find something positive about it, eh? Every execution has a silver lining.

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    32 years today ..still burned into British people’s memories..I wonder if American atrocities are still so keenly felt ? Somehow I doubt it ..
    Ask the relatives of the dead. And the survivors that were present during the massacres. Perhaps all the folks that live around the schools that were shot up.

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
    Ask the relatives of the dead. And the survivors that were present during the massacres. Perhaps all the folks that live around the schools that were shot up.
    Im sure they remember..it was more directed at the rest of the USA...You could ask pretty much anyone in UK over 50 to name a UK mass shooting and I would think the vast majority would recall Hungerford and Dunblane ...I wouldn't be so confident that many Americans could name a mass shooting that was over 30 yrs ago ...

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    Im sure they remember..it was more directed at the rest of the USA...You could ask pretty much anyone in UK over 50 to name a UK mass shooting and I would think the vast majority would recall Hungerford and Dunblane ...I wouldn't be so confident that many Americans could name a mass shooting that was over 30 yrs ago ...
    We have so many it's hard to keep track. There's always Kent State where the National Guard saw fit to execute 4 demonstrators who were brandishing deadly flowers.
    And good ol' Charles Manson. He was responsible for 9 killings. Columbine was 20 years ago. Seems like it was just yesterday. BTW, I had to look up all of these for the dates.

    I also had to look up "going postal" to see when that slang came into being. First use alleged to be December of 1993. I thought it was much older.
    Last edited by Bwana; 19-08-19 at 17:39. Reason: added the last line

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
    We have so many it's hard to keep track. There's always Kent State where the National Guard saw fit to execute 4 demonstrators who were brandishing deadly flowers.
    And good ol' Charles Manson. He was responsible for 9 killings. Columbine was 20 years ago. Seems like it was just yesterday. BTW, I had to look up all of these for the dates.
    Hardly anyone remembers the bowling green massacre.....

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    Im sure they remember..it was more directed at the rest of the USA...You could ask pretty much anyone in UK over 50 to name a UK mass shooting and I would think the vast majority would recall Hungerford and Dunblane ...I wouldn't be so confident that many Americans could name a mass shooting that was over 30 yrs ago ...
    They might remember the ones in their own state. Few people in the UK could name one in another European country...

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by murcan View Post
    Bend it like Beckham. That's the only way you can arrive at that conclusion.
    570 people have been killed by cops so far this year, number of people killed by rifles averages about 360 a year (iirc). Pretty sure 570 is a larger number than 360 in your world?..

    Cops killed 1164 people in 2018.

    Math not your strong point?

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by nidge View Post
    Hardly anyone remembers the bowling green massacre.....
    (Capten, art tha sleepin' there below?)

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    570 people have been killed by cops so far this year, number of people killed by rifles averages about 360 a year (iirc). Pretty sure 570 is a larger number than 360 in your world?..

    Cops killed 1164 people in 2018.

    Math not your strong point?
    Actually, there a quite a few deaths where the firearm is not identified in the data. It's also a bit disingenuous of you to limit your potential death to rifles as handguns are more apt to be the weapon you're going to die from if it's a bullet that takes you out. I dunno about you, but I suspect the odds of me getting shot by a cop are pretty much zero. I'm probably more likely to get shot by a small child that's found his mother's unsecured pistol in her purse

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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse


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    Default Re: The US and guns - it gets worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
    Actually, there a quite a few deaths where the firearm is not identified in the data. It's also a bit disingenuous of you to limit your potential death to rifles as handguns are more apt to be the weapon you're going to die from if it's a bullet that takes you out. I dunno about you, but I suspect the odds of me getting shot by a cop are pretty much zero. I'm probably more likely to get shot by a small child that's found his mother's unsecured pistol in her purse
    How so? Rifles are what every bugger is all fired up about.

    & maybe stay away from small children, you'll catch something.

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