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Thread: Japanese MotoGP

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    In recent years, some ignorant 'fans' have labelled some champions, lucky. Hayden and Roberts spring to mind.
    Count me as ignorant then, because when the top riders fall off the best of the rest get to pick up the results. Hayden in 2006 for example, benefited from Rossi and Stoner both suffering from a series of DNFs and Gibernau forgetting how to ride. Rossi had 5 wins in the season, Hayden had 2, but in the end consistent podiums proved a better points winner than being a faster rider. In 1999 Alex Criville benefited from the withdrawal of his Honda teammate, 5-times running world champ Mick Doohan.

    None of these bikes ride themselves of course, but don't tell me luck doesn't come into it, even right at the top.


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  3. #17
    Should Get Out More Lostboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP


  4. #18
    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
    From your link:

    As Lorenzo pointed out, there was another high-profile incident of disagreement about the Frenchman’s aggression earlier in the year that came from Valentino Rossi (Movistar Yamaha MotoGP) after the Americas GP in Austin.
    It's racing, not bleedin' skittles.

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    Should Get Out More Supermofo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    I like Zarco he don't give a toss about the stars, he's there to try and win.

  6. #20
    Should Get Out More Weeksy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    I didn't think Zarcos pass was particularly strong. Certainly not in the context of the last 2-3 years of MotorGP overtakes from all of them.

  7. #21
    Should Get Out More Lostboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    From your link:



    It's racing, not bleedin' skittles.
    He can point out as many passes as he likes, Zarco did him fairly and squarely in Japan and he's behaving like a spoiled child. He needs to man up and realise that he's not running away with races anymore and he's going to have to race - a bit like his team-mate.

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  9. #22
    Should Get Out More Makman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Zarco's passes are softer than those of Marquez. Lorenzo is just upset that he is having to race people now. Dovi is the one who is putting together races and is using his head to win them!

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  11. #23
    Should Get Out More Lostboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Makman View Post
    Zarco's passes are softer than those of Marquez. Lorenzo is just upset that he is having to race people now. Dovi is the one who is putting together races and is using his head to win them!
    And that's the bigger issue for Lorenzo - he's gone to Ducati for the big, big, big bucks and he's being handed his arse at racecraft by his team mate.

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    Should Get Out More Weeksy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
    And that's the bigger issue for Lorenzo - he's gone to Ducati for the big, big, big bucks and he's being handed his arse at racecraft by his team mate.
    Not sure that's a fair representation. It's his first year on what is accepted as being a very difficult bike to get used to. He's now putting it for at least a decent chunk of the races, right at the pointy end.

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    Should Get Out More Lostboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    Not sure that's a fair representation. It's his first year on what is accepted as being a very difficult bike to get used to. He's now putting it for at least a decent chunk of the races, right at the pointy end.
    Of 14 races this year he's been in the top five just five times. I've already commented on Dovi having developed the bike but even so there's nothing about Jorge's riding that's showing that he's learning. If anyone else went straight to the front and cooked their tyres, disappeared back into the field whilst waiting for them to come back and then tried again everyone would be very sceptical and suggesting that he was there for coverage for sponsors and little else. He's had the benefit of Dorna letting the wings back in and it's made some difference for him but he's still only been on the podium once since then. He's shown little or no appetite for a race when challenged, but then we've only ever seen fleeting glimpses of that anyway. He's still a supremely gifted bike rider, of that there is absolutely no doubt, but the fact that he's had nearly as many finishes outside the top ten as he's had in the top five this season (the same if you count the retirement) suggest that he's not learning that fast - which I'd expect for one of the biggest earners in the paddock. It's also not as if Ducati are in the position that they were when Rossi went there when only one bloke in the paddock could ride them. Petrucci has only just stepped on a 17 bike - which won't be getting the same parts - and is only 5 points behind him in the championship. Bautista has never ridden one and is riding a two year old model and is the first place non-works or satellite bike in the championship at the moment.

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    Should Get Out More Weeksy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    but even so there's nothing about Jorge's riding that's showing that he's learning
    The fact that he's gone from qualifying 15th to being on the front row ? Leading races when before he was 12th on lap 1. ?

    As i say, i get that he's not conserving the tyres right yet... but he's clearly a LOT quicker than he was

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    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
    He can point out as many passes as he likes, Zarco did him fairly and squarely in Japan and he's behaving like a spoiled child. He needs to man up and realise that he's not running away with races anymore and he's going to have to race - a bit like his team-mate.
    IMHO any passing move that is characterised by the man on the inside charging up and barging the guy in front is either gross incompetence or foul riding, don't care who the riders involved are, though I realise it's fashionable to have a hate on Lorenzo. And I don't think it will have escaped him that his job is to race.

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  18. #28
    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    Not sure that's a fair representation. It's his first year on what is accepted as being a very difficult bike to get used to. He's now putting it for at least a decent chunk of the races, right at the pointy end.
    I've commented in the past about the way he reportedly likes his bikes set up and how this has affected his performance on the Ducati. This ties up entirely with the way he has improved since the aero fairing came in, giving him the planted feel on the front that he was struggling with. The tyres the Ducatis run also point to his feelings not being imaginary - they tend to run softer tyres than the other manufacturers to get feel, which means they then wear out towards the end of the race. His comments after Motegi were also interesting, claiming the reason he was able to retake two places toward the end of the race was he got used to sliding the rear which put more heat into it and thus got more grip. That's not a skill you get easily, nor is it the mark of a rider who's just going through the motions for the paypacket.

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    Should Get Out More Makman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese MotoGP

    Having watched the race, Marquez's pass on Dovi was much harder than Zarco on Lorenzo.... And Dovi just came back for more. Really great race craft from both, but the consistency of Dovi looks to be paying off, he just keeps it smooth and on the track (except after winning and going long!). What a cracker!!

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