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Thread: Beware the setting sun......

  1. #46
    Expecting rain saga_lout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    I had already slowed down (50/55? for some distance). Yes, I could have been slower. I came up behind slower traffic (40?), checked everything using my LH to shield the sun, as I had been doing frequently up to that point, and moved out. Sitting behind a queue at 40 on a DC isn't the most comfortable place to be either. It's that word "overtake" that's done it. Lane 1 is often occupied by farm traffic (cauliflowers etc) travelling at 30 or less; I mustn't "overtake" them either? And "stopping" is my new answer, but before the problem arises, not after.
    There's a reason we don't give driving licences to the blind. If you can't see where you're going, overtaking should be last thing on your mind. If you can't see that then you really are blind and shouldn't be driving at all.

    You've taken the first step in recognising that you made a mistake. However, you seem to have decided, wrongly, that your mistake was in not waiting before setting off. It wasn't, your mistake was carrying on when you couldn't see. If you continue to confuse yourself about what your mistake was you'll make the same mistake again and you might not be so lucky the next time.


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  3. #47
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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    I had already slowed down (50/55? for some distance). Yes, I could have been slower.
    I came up behind slower traffic (40?),
    It's that word "overtake" that's done it.
    "stopping" is my new answer, but before the problem arises, not after.
    , there are limited options. That's the point of this thread.
    Post edited to thread essentials

    As far as vision & distance WRT speed, use the HC stopping distances to inform: increasing speed from 40mph up to 55/60 really extends the distance you must be able to see ahead.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    There's a wicked spot on the M6 for rising sun problems.
    Lane 4 ends / merges into lane 3, sun directly ahead, right at the crest of a rise.

    It's always fun.

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    Smile Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    .....offensive unhelpful stuff......

    You've taken the first step in recognising that you made a mistake. However, you seem to have decided, wrongly, that your mistake was in not waiting before setting off. It wasn't, your mistake was carrying on when you couldn't see. If you continue to confuse yourself about what your mistake was you'll make the same mistake again and you might not be so lucky the next time.
    That wasn't what I've decided. Where did you get that from? My decision was that, 3/4 way through my journey, when the impending problem became apparent, I could/should have extended my tea-break for long enough to let the sun set. I explained that clearly. Nothing to do with "waiting before setting off".

    Here's a suggestion: you - and Ricey, if he likes - are welcome to come and visit me on a sunny afternoon in the next few weeks. Tea and carrot cake. See how you get on. If you come up behind cauliflowers on the A30, your tea will be cold. Because you can't overtake them.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlongbeard View Post
    There's a wicked spot on the M6 for rising sun problems.
    Lane 4 ends / merges into lane 3, sun directly ahead, right at the crest of a rise.

    It's always fun.
    So you stop?

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    That wasn't what I've decided. Where did you get that from? My decision was that, 3/4 way through my journey, when the impending problem became apparent, I could/should have extended my tea-break for long enough to let the sun set. I explained that clearly. Nothing to do with "waiting before setting off".

    Here's a suggestion: you - and Ricey, if he likes - are welcome to come and visit me on a sunny afternoon in the next few weeks. Tea and carrot cake. See how you get on. If you come up behind cauliflowers on the A30, your tea will be cold. Because you can't overtake them.



    So you stop?
    Cold tea is a small problem. Crashing is a big problem.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    .

    So you stop?
    If in lane 3 or 4 yes, people can't seem to cope with merging, if in lane 1 or 2 no, you hope for the best.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    I have used tape on my visor for this purpose for years and yes, Yorick, found it very helpful;
    Is this usually effective in the same situation? Actually that's reminded me that my own helmet is not an unmovable fit. A good yank can bring it down a bit so my 'sunvisor tape'. is in a lower & better place.

    If so there's the solution there & then & end of thread. Plus you won't be forgetting to put some on next time

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    There's a reason we don't give driving licences to the blind. If you can't see where you're going, overtaking should be last thing on your mind. If you can't see that then you really are blind and shouldn't be driving at all.
    Which, apparently, is offensive and unhelpful. Let me explain why I don't drive any more. I had a TIA (mini-stroke) in 2009, it left me with a minor defect in my vision. The experts think I can't see well enough to drive, I think I probably could, I also think I'm not the best judge of that, so I don't drive. You were temporarily blinded, you had less vision than I have, yet you continued to drive. That is irresponsible and stupid. I'm trying to help you to see that. You think I'm being offensive. So be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    You've taken the first step in recognising that you made a mistake. However, you seem to have decided, wrongly, that your mistake was in not waiting before setting off. It wasn't, your mistake was carrying on when you couldn't see. If you continue to confuse yourself about what your mistake was you'll make the same mistake again and you might not be so lucky the next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    That wasn't what I've decided. Where did you get that from? My decision was that, 3/4 way through my journey, when the impending problem became apparent, I could/should have extended my tea-break for long enough to let the sun set. I explained that clearly. Nothing to do with "waiting before setting off".

    Here's a suggestion: you - and Ricey, if he likes - are welcome to come and visit me on a sunny afternoon in the next few weeks. Tea and carrot cake. See how you get on. If you come up behind cauliflowers on the A30, your tea will be cold. Because you can't overtake them.
    You decided that you should have waited before setting off from your tea-break. Which is pretty much what I said except I, mistakenly as it turns out, thought you would be intelligent enough to know that I didn't mean you should have got out of bed 30 minutes later or had breakfast 30 minutes later.

    Your solution is that you'e going to predict a hazardous situation and set off 30 minutes later to avoid it. How does that help with the hazards that you can't predict? What are you going to do then? Speed up and overtake them, presumably? Good luck with that approach.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Worth considering that the Sun doesn't hop about in the sky to a certain extent (by watching for clouds clearing, shadow direction etc) this kind of thing is predictable. The road I live on is almost exactly east-west, so around the equinoxes it's a given.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    I'm not sure what you think my reason was for starting this thread. To show off my wonderful skills in using good luck, which I described - to avoid a crash? To demonstrate that my abilities allowed me to get away with riding at huge speed into the setting sun? To give everybody a chance to wipe the floor with me and use their "what an idiot" button? It scared the shit out of me. I thought that would have been obvious from my account. It seems that my mention of "preparing to overtake" is what pushed your button. You have no idea of what my "preparation" involved, or how "careful" that prep was. "He'll do the same thing again and again etc". Steady. He won't. Obviously. Understand now? Sorry - I'm starting to finger-stab the keyboard.

    Your post was sarcastic and unhelpful. The point of this section of the forum is the opposite of that, I hope. I have the feeling that the only useful suggestion so far has been my own - extending my previous tea-break, which is what I'll do next time; it's not an unusual trip for me. Calling someone an idiot might make you feel better, but is no help to any poster unless you explain why, and will only serve to stop other people - like me - less able, skilled or experienced than you from getting involved on here, which would be a shame.

    Don't worry: as Horse has said - a great deal of self-review has taken place since Sunday.
    OK, late to the show on this and everything that needs to be said has pretty much been said...

    But there are two main takeaways from this.

    The first is that you committed to overtaking when you really couldn't see what you were doing. Why the car was there and what it was doing is irrelevant. You were assuming that the lane you were moving into would stay clear whilst you overtook. You could have discovered any number of hazards in the area you couldn't see -
    you could have hit a deer, a pothole, standing water from a storm, a pallet that had fallen off a truck. For what it's worth, I've had to avoid all of them whilst overtaking.

    The second is that you seem to assume that an overtake was 'necessary' because the Transit wasn't going particularly quickly and you wanted to go faster.

    Few roads in the UK are dead straight and there's only one angle the sun is shining right in your eyes... you just have to wait a few seconds until the road bends slightly and you can see what you're doing. And if the road curves back towards the sun, then prepare to be dazzled... it's possible that the driver you flashed past had been dazzled and had hit the brakes hard. There's a stretch of the A38 that crests a rise straight into the setting sun in mid-winter... it's absolutely blinding when you encounter it and everyone hits the brakes because they haven't noticed the blue sky and the brightly illuminated trees on the ridge on either side of the road. I've learned - by experience - to be well back from the car in front so I don't have to brake hard when the bloke in front does, and worry about getting punted up the backside by the car behind.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wossname View Post
    I had already slowed down (50/55? for some distance). Yes, I could have been slower. I came up behind slower traffic (40?), checked everything using my LH to shield the sun, as I had been doing frequently up to that point, and moved out. Sitting behind a queue at 40 on a DC isn't the most comfortable place to be either. It's that word "overtake" that's done it. Lane 1 is often occupied by farm traffic (cauliflowers etc) travelling at 30 or less; I mustn't "overtake" them either? And "stopping" is my new answer, but before the problem arises, not after.



    That's a manipulation of what I said. See above.

    For those of us who live in the south-west, this isn't an unusual problem on nice days at this time of year. You leave Cornwall in the morning into the rising sun, and go home in the evening into the setting sun. Apart from moving house or the sun, there are limited options. That's the point of this thread.
    Now you're starting to make excuses...

    The problem with the sun happens anywhere the sun shines. When I was instructing down at Lydd on Romney Marsh, I used to have to ride (or drive) into the rising sun on the way to work and into the setting sun on the way home, and at particular times of the year and at some point of the journey it was quite blinding.

    One solution which no-one has suggested (or if they did, I missed it) was to find a different route. I had two alternatives... in the morning for example, one went south-east straight into the winter rising sun then south. The other went south first so I missed the rising sun by the time I turned east.

    And there are plenty of tractors and other farm vehicles around in Kent... I just left a little earlier in case I caught anything up where I would struggle to overtake.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    About 30 years ago a friend of mine spent 3 months in hospital after he drove his car straight into the back of a milk float heading up the hill towards Brands hatch one winter morning. Essentially he just didn't see the near stationary vehicle due to the low sun.

    My point, if there is one, is that this problem doesn't just affect bikes, although cars meat be less susceptible with roofs and sun visors.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    A friend of mine died when he collided with the rear of an hgv which emerged from roadworks. Late afternoon, late October, he was heading WSW. Possibly a coincidence.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Ref Burty & Horse: a few years ago, on the road adjacent to where I live, maybe 300m away, a woman crashed into the back of a parked car and also wrote off the VFR800 of the guy who lived nearby. I was on the scene soon after it happened. VFR man (who'd come out of his house in his dressing gown) was talking to her and being a lot more sympathetic than I probably would have been. She said she had been blinded by the sun.

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    Default Re: Beware the setting sun......

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    .... and at some point of the journey it was quite blinding.

    One solution which no-one has suggested (or if they did, I missed it) was to find a different route....
    I have/had considered using a different route: trouble is, down here they're all single carriageways, with more frequent and more varied hazards, and they all point west too, so won't help things.

    Saga - easy q: what would YOU do? (not what you WOULDN'T do) - in the circumstances? And the rest of you?

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