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Thread: Emergency Stops ?

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    Default Emergency Stops ?


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    Now, we don't want any laughing, specially from Horse and Bike_breaker up in the cheap seats.

    I've done a few in my time and could probably stop quicker than most instructors, but I need to know the 'proper way'

    I've been teaching a pal's daughter on our driveway and roundabout. Today we took her onto the quiet road outside our house. I've been teaching her all the basics and she's a quick learner.

    I left out wheelies and getting knee down till later

    I never use back brake on track as it's usually light anyway. But was showing her how to use both brakes together and seperately.

    But what's the way she needs to learn emergency stops to pass her test ? Front first ? back first ? Use gears ? Whatever ?



    Stop sniggering.


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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    *snigger*

    What would you do on the track? Then do not-quite-so-much So you may well need the rear too.

    One of the ways of covering this is to find a piece of flat, well-surfaced, land, then play with the brakes:
    - Rear only
    - Front only
    - Both together
    Use cones (if you have them, otherwise some sort of marker - halved tennis balls are cheap and easy to mark the braking start point (same for all) and then mark the front wheel for each brake.

    However, things to cover first:
    - Head and eyes up - looking well ahead NOT down at the front brake lever or the braking markers. Looking well ahead helps keep the bike straight, especially if a wheel locks
    - Squeeze - not grab
    - Try and keep shoulders relaxed, grip the tank with knees
    - Gently at first
    - Squeeze, then when you feel the weight balance shift towards the front (usually feel it in your elbows), increase front brake, but keep the rear the same, or even reduce the pressure
    - Ignore bollox about 75:25 front:rear - no-one can really tell that . . .
    - If an e-stop, squeeze in the clutch just before stopping, down worry too much about trying to crunch down gears, do that when you're stopped

    You should also cover what to do if a wheel locks:
    - If front, release both brakes, reapply smoothly
    - If rear only, beliefs vary. UK is to release and reapply, US is to keep locked and ride it out. You choose

    Start with smooth stops. When that's consistent, build up the pressure.

    Your coaching job is to encourage the head and eyes up (choose a point as far in the distance as possible), with relaxed posture, and smooth use of controls.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    I was doing all that stuff, just wondered if there's a special way that you need to do it to pass the test?

    I'll pass your info onto her though

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Your coaching job is to encourage the head and eyes up (choose a point as far in the distance as possible), with relaxed posture, and smooth use of controls.
    I told her to concentrate on the road just in front to see dodgy road surfaces and adjust braking to suit. It doesn't matter what's 20 yards in front.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    I told her to concentrate on the road just in front to see dodgy road surfaces and adjust braking to suit. It doesn't matter what's 20 yards in front.
    Depending on speed, you can stop in a few seconds. 30mph = about 15 yards per second, so you need to be looking much further ahead. But for e-stops, you get what you're given, you can't delay braking for a grippier surface - only make the decision earlier to go slower or ride around the poor surface.

    Ideally, planning should be 12+ seconds, anything within 4 seconds is emergency reaction.


    http://www.safespeed.org.uk/background.html
    0.45 g stopping distances for normal driving
    speed | thinking | braking | overall stopping | size of safe braking zone in seconds
    20mph 22 feet 30 feet 52 feet 1.8 secs
    30mph 33 feet 67 feet 100 feet 2.3 secs
    40mph 44 feet 120 feet 164 feet 2.8 secs
    50mph 55 feet 187 feet 242 feet 3.3 secs
    60mph 66 feet 269 feet 335 feet 3.8 secs
    70mph 77 feet 366 feet 443 feet 4.3 secs
    80mph 88 feet 478 feet 566 feet 4.8 secs
    90mph 99 feet 605 feet 704 feet 5.3 secs
    100mph 110 feet 747 feet 857 feet 5.8 secs

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    concentrate on the road just in front
    "Where you look is where you go"

    The head and eyes up, looking well ahead, is vital.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    "Where you look is where you go"

    The head and eyes up, looking well ahead, is vital.
    Over here it's very dry and often lots of dust and dirt on the roads, which need looking out for.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    Over here it's very dry and often lots of dust and dirt on the roads, which need looking out for.
    Yup, but still look well ahead. Further the better.

    If you're looking closer, then you need to go slower. Loose surface will also affect braking - but that's out of my area of expertise, I'm 'tarmac' not 'dust'

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Yup, but still look well ahead. Further the better.

    If you're looking closer, then you need to go slower. Loose surface will also affect braking - but that's out of my area of expertise, I'm 'tarmac' not 'dust'
    It's taking me a long time to realise I can brake hard when riding the dirt bike off road. I'm forcing myself to test the braking ability all the time. Even down steep sandy descents. After 35 years trackriding, it's wierd.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    It's taking me a long time to realise I can brake hard when riding the dirt bike off road. I'm forcing myself to test the braking ability all the time. Even down steep sandy descents. After 35 years trackriding, it's wierd.
    And you probably have the finesse to use the brakes to the limit (and possibly beyond) the there's limits - along with the honed reflexes to know what a squirrely bike feels like and how to manage it.

    Enough of the bullshit flattery - it could just be that you got lucky for 35 years

    But the point is that your learner won't and can't etc.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    I was doing all that stuff, just wondered if there's a special way that you need to do it to pass the test?

    I'll pass your info onto her though
    Basically, the UK test requires what I would call a 'brisk' stop (not a full-on one) under control. A big lock-up would not be under control. A small chirp from the rear tyre would generally be OK. Likewise a chirp from the front although my experience is that the average novice won't get off the front quick enough if they lock it.

    You doing the test abroad?

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    Basically, the UK test requires what I would call a 'brisk' stop (not a full-on one) under control. A big lock-up would not be under control. A small chirp from the rear tyre would generally be OK. Likewise a chirp from the front although my experience is that the average novice won't get off the front quick enough if they lock it.

    You doing the test abroad?
    Yes. She's here fulltime and will do it here. My missus wants to do her test, but think she'll do a 5 day course in UK.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    Yes. She's here fulltime and will do it here. My missus wants to do her test, but think she'll do a 5 day course in UK.
    What are the test requirements out there?

    Also, it's worth running Penny (?) through the same exercises described.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    What are the test requirements out there?

    Also, it's worth running Penny (?) through the same exercises described.
    It's the same test. Almost exactly.

    Pen's been riding for years. Had her own TY250. Passed her CBT 4 years ago. They don't have CBT here.

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    Default Re: Emergency Stops ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    Pen's been riding for years. Had her own TY250. Passed her CBT 4 years ago. .
    Plenty of time to learn bad habits, then?

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