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Thread: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?


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    "Tesla also blames Walter’s alleged failure to pay attention as the sole cause of the accident. The NTSB report provides facts that support our concerns that there was a failure of both the Tesla Autopilot and the automatic braking systems of the car," said Mark Fong of Minami Tamaki LLP. "The report states that four seconds before the crash, Walter’s Tesla, under the control of the car’s Autopilot system, disengaged from following the car ahead and then accelerated at a high rate of speed into a fixed concrete highway barrier."
    So Tesla think it's the all the drivers fault and it's ok that the car accelerated straight into a barrier. If I was a Tesla engineer, I would have thought of a better way to get the drivers attention.

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    Slightly worrying if, like me, you ride a busy M'way lined up with your 'escape route', the L2/L3 gap. That gives 2 sets of cruise control a good chance of missing you.
    If your escape route is up either filtering lane (1a or 2a etc.) then presumably you will escape while the following AEB-equipped cars react to the vehicles that you're filtering between?

    If you're not approaching a situation where 'escape' ie potentially necessary in the near future, why ride there? There's 'proactive' and 'ridiculous'

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    If your escape route is up either filtering lane (1a or 2a etc.) then presumably you will escape while the following AEB-equipped cars react to the vehicles that you're filtering between?

    If you're not approaching a situation where 'escape' ie potentially necessary in the near future, why ride there? There's 'proactive' and 'ridiculous'
    On the M1 in rush hour it was always wise to have an escape route. Several times a minor bump 3 or 4 cars ahead left the bloke in front of me panic braking to avoid the mess. I might have been able to match him, but it was so much more comfortable to have that extra 2 or 3 yards.

    And before you suggest I leave a bigger gap, leave more than about 1/2 a car's length and the bloke inside will take that as an invitation to move out.

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    If you're not approaching a situation where 'escape' ie potentially necessary in the near future, why ride there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    On the M1 in rush hour it was always wise to have an escape route. Several times a minor bump 3 or 4 cars ahead left the bloke in front of me panic braking to avoid the mess. I might have been able to match him, but it was so much more comfortable to have that extra 2 or 3 yards.
    Ah, so you agree that it was worth doing in certain circumstances. Good

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?


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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?


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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    That's pretty worrying as that's hardly an uncommon situation. And Tesla's response is quite worrying, too, as it's basically "Meh, driver's fault"

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNab View Post
    That's pretty worrying as that's hardly an uncommon situation. And Tesla's response is quite worrying, too, as it's basically "Meh, driver's fault"
    Problem is, the driver is also on 'autopilot'.

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNab View Post
    That's pretty worrying as that's hardly an uncommon situation. And Tesla's response is quite worrying, too, as it's basically "Meh, driver's fault"
    I don't know whether it's adjustable (and has been dialled-down to minimum), but the autopilot's following from the lead car seems to be slightly over one second. I haven't listened to the commentary, but their speed isn't mentioned in the open captions. Because of the various camera angles and editing for dramatic effect, it's difficult to determine how much additional 'warning' distance would have been needed for it to stop in time, but it looks as if the Tesla actually stops one pair of white line/space markings on - and if they're TSRGD for high speed roads then that's just 9 or 10 metres.

    It does seem like a similar result (ie an 'almost stop') to the infamous fire tender incident in the States:

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...-on-autopilot/

    Probably not a 65mph impact.


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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Problem is, the driver is also on 'autopilot'.
    Exactly. But Tesla steadfastly refuse to understand this point.

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?


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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNab View Post
    That's pretty worrying as that's hardly an uncommon situation. And Tesla's response is quite worrying, too, as it's basically "Meh, driver's fault"
    Actually, I doubt that, in the same circumstances (speed, following distance, how close the lead car is when it swerves), that a human driver would have avoided the crash either. It's a fair guess that the Tesla would have reacted more quickly and then applied and maintained maximum braking. Do you think a human could have avoided that crash (other than swerve too)?

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Do you think a human could have avoided that crash (other than swerve too)?
    A human probably would have gone for the violent swerve option, and would probably have got away with it. Once in a while that option would have caused a multi-vehicle accident with perhaps multiple casualties.

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    Default Re: Who is to blame for 'self-driving car' deaths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    A human probably would have gone for the violent swerve option, and would probably have got away with it. Once in a while that option would have caused a multi-vehicle accident with perhaps multiple casualties.
    I'm not so sure. Many people would get target fixation and freeze. How many can swerve accurately? Most will never have tried.

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