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Thread: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

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    Should Get Out More Editor's Avatar
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    Question automatic gearboxes & road tax?


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    This morning I have discovered that the VED on the 4 speed automatic version of a (petrol) car is £100 more pa than the identical spec 5 speed manual. It's a 15 year old car though. On a different make, same age, same displacement, also petrol & a 4 speed autobox, it's £60 extra than its manual equivalent.

    I can sort of get this on the old ones.

    Question for those of you with newer autos-is there also a disparity between the VED on auto & the manual?

    I'm having trouble seeing it on a 5 speed slushbox, but I guess it's going to be there a a little bit?

    What about really new many ratio DSGs, because I can see zero reason for any disparity on, say a 8 speed DSG, & a 6 speed manual?


    But a £100?? The auto isn't pulling that many revs more at 70mph. I know I can't do a thing about it, & I guess it's connected to trying to getting older more polluting cars off the road, but seems a bit harsh on say older or not so well people who need an auto? And around town, on the school or supermarket run, or in stop start traffic I'm not so sure an auto would emit more because you're not having to rev it up to move it off on the clutch-you just take your foot off the brake & let it creep. And one (or I) tend to limo it about with an auto so it's changing up pretty early.

    Back to lending support to a charge on pollution by mile I suppose. But then again, what sort of miles? Has to be chucking out rather more doing 20 miles down the M1, than it does spending 20 miles only doing the school run? Or is it, because maybe it's not running at optimum efficiency around town??


    BTW is there a disparity on bikes too?

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    Should Get Out More GiantPygmy's Avatar
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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Editor View Post
    This morning I have discovered that the VED on the 4 speed automatic version of a (petrol) car is £100 more pa than the identical spec 5 speed manual. It's a 15 year old car though. On a different make, same age, same displacement, also petrol & a 4 speed autobox, it's £60 extra than its manual equivalent.

    I can sort of get this on the old ones.

    Question for those of you with newer autos-is there also a disparity between the VED on auto & the manual?

    I'm having trouble seeing it on a 5 speed slushbox, but I guess it's going to be there a a little bit?

    What about really new many ratio DSGs, because I can see zero reason for any disparity on, say a 8 speed DSG, & a 6 speed manual?


    But a £100?? The auto isn't pulling that many revs more at 70mph. I know I can't do a thing about it, & I guess it's connected to trying to getting older more polluting cars off the road, but seems a bit harsh on say older or not so well people who need an auto? And around town, on the school or supermarket run, or in stop start traffic I'm not so sure an auto would emit more because you're not having to rev it up to move it off on the clutch-you just take your foot off the brake & let it creep. And one (or I) tend to limo it about with an auto so it's changing up pretty early.

    Back to lending support to a charge on pollution by mile I suppose. But then again, what sort of miles? Has to be chucking out rather more doing 20 miles down the M1, than it does spending 20 miles only doing the school run? Or is it, because maybe it's not running at optimum efficiency around town??


    BTW is there a disparity on bikes too?
    Its the Co2 that drives the VED - Autos have higher Co2 than manuals (or did in the old tests) and that can flip them into the next bracket for VED - for most drivers it was the BIK that him them, not the VED as majority were lease cars...

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Editor View Post
    Question for those of you with newer autos-is there also a disparity between the VED on auto & the manual?
    There is no manual version of mine, but as it's based on emissions, is it not just that the older auto boxes were less efficient?

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    No manual version for me either but I guess the 8 speed auto means the engine sits at economic revs more of the time.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    I pay almost £100 less for a 2.5L sporty auto manufactured in 1998 compared to a mundane 2.0L estate made in 2001. Somewhere betwixt the two dates it changes and the younger car comes under tighter emissions regs (that it performs badly at).

    Can't contribute to your auto versus manual conundrum - an interesting one if true

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Auto boxes are sometimes (often?) more economical IRL, but not in the CO2 test. It would not surprise me if VAG have a 'test detector' mechanism to fudge that now.

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    Should Get Out More Claude's Avatar
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    Default automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    I donít pay ved on the car

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    Should Get Out More Derek Badger's Avatar
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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Only spakkers drive autos. It's a tax on those that can't drive real cars.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Badger View Post
    Only spakkers drive autos. It's a tax on those that can't drive real cars.
    I thought flappy paddles would make up for the lack of stick but they are attached to the steering wheel, that may work well on the track but it's pants for getting around town.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    My last two cars have been DSG VAGs. The current one is hybrid petrol you can't get it without DSG because the "automatic" changes happen at the most efficient revs. It even kicks it into neutral to freewheel if that's the most efficient thing to do even for a couple of seconds. Its zero tax for the first year.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    My brand new Dacia cost me €11 for the year.

    The GSXR was €7.50

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    The new 8 speed autos are slush box not DSG/dual clutch. I think 7 is the most anyone does on a robotic manual (McLaren and Porsche both do) whereas slush boxes currently go up to 10 speed in the most extreme case I think (Ford).

    The autos are cleaner, on test at least, because they have more gears tonl choose from but also because they will short shift etc. errrrr....automatically.

    The drive cycle they use to arrive at the official emissions and MPG figures has recently changed quite a lot BTW, so it'll be interesting to see how things change.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Dazzle View Post
    The new 8 speed autos are slush box not DSG/dual clutch. I think 7 is the most anyone does on a robotic manual (McLaren and Porsche both do) whereas slush boxes currently go up to 10 speed in the most extreme case I think (Ford).

    The autos are cleaner, on test at least, because they have more gears tonl choose from but also because they will short shift etc. errrrr....automatically.

    The drive cycle they use to arrive at the official emissions and MPG figures has recently changed quite a lot BTW, so it'll be interesting to see how things change.
    Out of interest are the multi gear slushmatics CVTs with programmed steps in them (as Audi were doing in the late 90s early 00s - which is when I last paid much attention) or are they genuine multi gear gearboxes?

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by balbas View Post
    Out of interest are the multi gear slushmatics CVTs with programmed steps in them (as Audi were doing in the late 90s early 00s - which is when I last paid much attention) or are they genuine multi gear gearboxes?
    My 8 speed slush box has proper gears.

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    Default Re: automatic gearboxes & road tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by NyseriA View Post
    but as it's based on emissions, is it not just that the older auto boxes were less efficient?
    well there is this torque convertor which itself holds 50% of the trans fluid, so that's going to sap a fair bit-you can see that in the mpg difference, well that plus the effect of the final gear ration.

    But, moderny or once into 5 gears?


    Here's another factor which impacts on emissions-the ratio of top gear in a manual gearbox. i.e. I know the Golf is turning over a few hundred more rpm than the ford at a satnav 70mph.

    If you were going to this properly you'd have factored this in as well. And it wouldn't have been hard, just one more field for a data clerk to bang in & the software does the rest. Plus no bugger can argue with it, so done=once done forever. So what we get (assuming we're actually more about cleaner air than revenue...) is a much clearer indicator of which models are running the most efficiently. And those twats who choose to stick in too lower a top gear get whacked. I can only imagine the rationale behind that is so the whole box runs lower ratio which I guess might shave a few 1/10ths of your 0-60 figure??

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Badger View Post
    Only spakkers drive autos. It's a tax on those that can't drive real cars.
    And lazy bastards. And thems with no left leg. Or come to thing of it, a fully working left hand, which is something I have to look forward to. Right now it's only part time spakkery, & that only if I touch something really cold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mussels View Post
    I thought flappy paddles would make up for the lack of stick but they are attached to the steering wheel, that may work well on the track but it's pants for getting around town.
    I've been in a few autos but only for about 5 minutes each time. 1st time I met the flappy paddles I had a play & then left them well alone. Never tried again. IMLE sports mode is more than capable, well more than I am.

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