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Thread: Assisted dying

  1. #1
    Should Get Out More Bobzilla's Avatar
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    Default Assisted dying

    Reading a piece in the Metro about assisted dying, about a woman whose sister went to Dignitas, and the family weren't even able to accompany her for fear of contravening the law. 82% of people are in favour of changing the law on this. 82%.

    Parliament debated a change of the law, and they decided it was all too difficult, so they did nothing.

    Why exactly are we dicking about with Brexit when it really is all too difficult and the support for it is somewhat underwhelming?

    Just a thought.

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    Should Get Out More gremlin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    I failed to understand this. It's a subject that has overwhelming support, yet the vocal minority of disabled people and religious zealots seem to be able to stymie any chance of society making progress on this issue.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlin View Post
    I failed to understand this. It's a subject that has overwhelming support, yet the vocal minority of disabled people and religious zealots seem to be able to stymie any chance of society making progress on this issue.
    Because our politicians are religious zealots, cowards and are wealthy enough for those who have anyone in that position to be able to subcontract their care and be too busy to have to watch their distress

    We couldn't even get our MP to attend a meeting where Dignity in Dying were presenting the evidence - moron

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by Gem View Post
    We couldn't even get our MP to attend a meeting where Dignity in Dying were presenting the evidence - moron
    A lesser person than me might wish them a slow death in which time they could have time to reflect upon their actions (or lack of). But not me. I'm way too nice a person.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by gremlin View Post
    A lesser person than me might wish them a slow death in which time they could have time to reflect upon their actions (or lack of). But not me. I'm way too nice a person.
    S'ok I'm not

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Take an 80+ year old dementia patient whose brain has now totally checked out and tally up the cost of palliative care, state pensions, sick days/compassionate leave for relatives, etc etc.

    Compare the cost of assisting that person to end a miserable existence.

    Even (especially) if you take the emotions out if it, it makes massive amounts of common sense.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    It's for the same reason we don't have the death penalty, though it would be financially better to put criminals to death rather than incarcerate them - it's unsound.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax View Post
    It's for the same reason we don't have the death penalty, though it would be financially better to put criminals to death rather than incarcerate them - it's unsound.
    Even if being of completely sound mind I opt for this with a solicitor and put it in writing now that in these circumstances I want to be turned off?

    I agree you can opt out - why can't you agree I can opt in?

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    The masses aren't always right. This is one of the benefits of elected legislators.

    If someone wants to end their life they can do so currently in the UK or can (I think) go to Swizerland and do it legally.

    I believe the concern for legal suicide is that people who feel they are (or indeed are) a burden may feel more pressure to end their lives if it's legal. My anecdotal evidence (FWIW) suggested that was the feeling of the majority of medical doctors.

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    Should Get Out More Bobzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by MsignorMartinez View Post
    The masses aren't always right. This is one of the benefits of elected legislators.

    If someone wants to end their life they can do so currently in the UK or can (I think) go to Swizerland and do it legally.

    I believe the concern for legal suicide is that people who feel they are (or indeed are) a burden may feel more pressure to end their lives if it's legal. My anecdotal evidence (FWIW) suggested that was the feeling of the majority of medical doctors.
    As currently stands, if people want to avoid a long slow painful death, they have to do so by terminating their life before they have reached that point. So what we're saying is that suicide by people that don't have any current reason to is OK, but suicide by people that really do have a current reason is bad and should be prevented, and anyone helping them should be punished.

    That's basically the same as saying that we should only permit terminations of foetuses that would be viable or are perfectly healthy - the termination of unviable foetuses of ones with severe defects should be illegal. Which is somewhat mental.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    As currently stands, if people want to avoid a long slow painful death, they have to do so by terminating their life before they have reached that point. So what we're saying is that suicide by people that don't have any current reason to is OK, but suicide by people that really do have a current reason is bad and should be prevented, and anyone helping them should be punished.

    That's basically the same as saying that we should only permit terminations of foetuses that would be viable or are perfectly healthy - the termination of unviable foetuses of ones with severe defects should be illegal. Which is somewhat mental.

    My aunt's partner has an unpleasant terminal illness. She was considering it. To do it there you have to be certified in 100% sound mind or something. She wasn't by that stage so it wasn't an option. I realise it's different with purely physical illnesses. I suspect in most / all cases someone could help them get to a place where they could end their own life and coroners (or whoever makes the call) are sensible / kind enough to not pursue the assistant(s).

    I believe (again from limited knowledge) that in cases of regular suicide the coroner will lean towards a non suicide verdict if they can; such as misadventure or an open verdict. This avoids the unpleasant repercussions to the friends / family of an official suicide verdict.

    TBH neither is a perfect solution. There are flaws with making it legal and flaws with keeping it illegal. The current situation which operates with a degree of common sense (to the extent of my knowledge) may be better than the alternatives.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    I think it's the 'assisted' bit that is difficult for the legislators.

    The legislators are going to find it difficult to categorise assistance and homicide. A living will may well exist but at the time of the death did the dead person actually want it. If they are suffering from dementia then who knows if they really want to die. They may not know themselves and for a 'carer' to make the decision . . . So while 82% of people supposedly support it, it wouldn't be the easiest piece of legislation to draft.

    I also think it would take a person of exceptional mental strength to actually assist. I like to think that I'm mentally strong but I can tell you from first hand experience that I could not and would not assist in a death of a loved one, despite the suffering.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Quote Originally Posted by MsignorMartinez View Post
    I believe (again from limited knowledge) that in cases of regular suicide the coroner will lean towards a non suicide verdict if they can; such as misadventure or an open verdict. This avoids the unpleasant repercussions to the friends / family of an official suicide verdict.

    There was a case recently of an ex-serviceman with PTSD who committed suicide and the Coroner used some other term in his verdict. The family in that instance were rather upset by the coroner's decision as they felt a suicide verdict would help to illustrate that there is a real problem with ex-service suicides. I'll see if I can find the report.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Seems odd that 'The powers that be' are so dead set against it but when a hospital precipitates a patients death through neglect they think we should just put up with it.

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    Default Re: Assisted dying

    Dignitas is not the wonderful thing it's made out to be. Apart from the expected coerced admissions they can get it wrong for people who get through all of their mental health sound mind checks.

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