Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 29 of 29

Thread: Sump woes

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Always Sunny Central Southern England
    Posts
    18,623
    Like
    1,819
    Liked 2,438 in 1,603 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Fast forward and William Dunlop's team revealed that the cause of his fatal accident was the sump plug bring ripped out of his R1 engine when it grounded out on a dip in the road.

    Action needed?
    So was it 'simply' that the suspension (along with tyre deformation) was able to compress sufficiently to allow the sump to below the line between the wheels' contact patch?

  2. #17
    Not Much To Do
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Solihull ish
    Posts
    341
    Like
    265
    Liked 135 in 83 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    I don't think banning the TT is the right thing todo, or road racing tbh. The the road racing circuit is dangerous because of the speed and lack of runoff available, so perhaps it is time to put up barriers and develop that side of things instead of changing the bikes, I'm not saying that this is the solution but perhaps something similar to the crash in Demolition Man where he goes through the window? I can't imagine that there is much more speed to be added as there has got to be a limit of speed/tyre adhesion/suspension capabilities etc. As others have said, the TT is voluntary. It is the ultimate test of man and machine in a natural environment, not an artificial race track one.

    But on the banning dangerous stuff argument, is road racing any more, or less, dangerous than Wingsuit racing? or freestyle MX? Have you seen the type of tricks that their doing now? This is sort of the same sort of mentality of the people who go and live by a race track and then complain about the noise. The 'other people are having fun and I don't like it'. The TT, and other road races, are a voluntary thing and the people (who have the largest cahoona's on the planet) are after that feeling, that threading a needle at 200mph edge of your seat pure unadulterated adrenaline rush. As long as there are humans, there will be a select few that need something else, something bigger, or faster, or better, to get that ultimate rush. Try and ban it, I can imagine that all the riders will get together and create their own track where officials don't get involved and they can find their limit.

  3. #18
    Should Get Out More GiantPygmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    20,599
    Like
    5,252
    Liked 4,147 in 2,281 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    I don't think its the same mentality of people going to live near a race track and then complain about the noise at all?
    If I was a racer, I'd be fully supporting any regs that pretty much remove the possibility of me hitting random oil slicks at 100mph+ - they are not supposed to be one of the risks of road racing.

  4. #19
    Not Much To Do
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Solihull ish
    Posts
    341
    Like
    265
    Liked 135 in 83 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by GiantPygmy View Post
    I don't think its the same mentality of people going to live near a race track and then complain about the noise at all?
    If I was a racer, I'd be fully supporting any regs that pretty much remove the possibility of me hitting random oil slicks at 100mph+ - they are not supposed to be one of the risks of road racing.
    I was talking about the banning it argument as opposed to the doing something about the sump issue. Sorry should have made myself clearer. I agree that that does need dealing with.

  5. #20
    Should Get Out More GiantPygmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    20,599
    Like
    5,252
    Liked 4,147 in 2,281 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Newfish View Post
    I was talking about the banning it argument as opposed to the doing something about the sump issue. Sorry should have made myself clearer. I agree that that does need dealing with.

    Aah, right - makes sense then!

  6. The following user liked this post made by GiantPygmy:


  7. #21
    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Back home
    Posts
    33,483
    Like
    1,408
    Liked 1,883 in 971 posts
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    So was it 'simply' that the suspension (along with tyre deformation) was able to compress sufficiently to allow the sump to below the line between the wheels' contact patch?
    The statement the team put out said that as the suspension bottomed on William's bike in a dip the sump plug came into contact with the ground and was ripped out. There is a video which I'm not going to link to, and you can see it's a dead straight bit of road.

    This is the Hillier incident, and to me it doesn't look like the bike was in an extreme position for the evident contact to have happened.


  8. #22
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Always Sunny Central Southern England
    Posts
    18,623
    Like
    1,819
    Liked 2,438 in 1,603 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Worth noting that IIRC Honda got it wrong with the 1300 Pan, with some of them damaging the sump.

    https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...s-stx1300-pan/

    The article suggests 'kerbs', perhaps inferring riding up and down, but I think there were 'straight line' incidents.

  9. #23
    Should Get Out More Julian_Boolean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nearly at the dawn of Britain
    Posts
    13,264
    Like
    752
    Liked 2,211 in 1,330 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Fit a flush fitting sump plug
    Fit a bash plate to protect the sump
    Make the bikes have a minimum ground clearance with the suspension compressed
    Problem solved

    Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk

  10. #24
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Always Sunny Central Southern England
    Posts
    18,623
    Like
    1,819
    Liked 2,438 in 1,603 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian_Boolean View Post
    Fit a flush fitting sump plug
    Fit a bash plate to protect the sump
    Make the bikes have a minimum ground clearance with the suspension compressed
    Problem solved
    Draw a line between lowest part of front and rear wheel rims, suspension fully compressed. If above that, then it could only ground if riding slowly off a kerb or similar. Paradoxically, a bash plate would effectively require greater ground clearance.

  11. #25
    Should Get Out More Julian_Boolean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nearly at the dawn of Britain
    Posts
    13,264
    Like
    752
    Liked 2,211 in 1,330 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Draw a line between lowest part of front and rear wheel rims, suspension fully compressed. If above that, then it could only ground if riding slowly off a kerb or similar. Paradoxically, a bash plate would effectively require greater ground clearance.
    I was thinking of race bikes rather than Pans, but yes a bash plate would mean the rest of the bike would have to sit higher, alternatively make the sump stronger and use a flush fitting plug, though I can't remember owning a bike with a flush fitting sump plug, had a few cars with them.

    Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk

  12. #26
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Always Sunny Central Southern England
    Posts
    18,623
    Like
    1,819
    Liked 2,438 in 1,603 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian_Boolean View Post
    I was thinking of race bikes rather than Pans
    So was I. Good luck to you landing a Pan so hard that it could deck out

  13. #27
    Should Get Out More KungFooBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The Forest Moon of Endor
    Posts
    14,785
    Like
    357
    Liked 5,938 in 3,397 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    The pan sump had legs that the engine would stand on when on the bench. It was these legs that if knocked would snap off leaving a hole in the sump, happened to my mate.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  14. The following user liked this post made by KungFooBob:


  15. #28
    Should Get Out More Julian_Boolean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nearly at the dawn of Britain
    Posts
    13,264
    Like
    752
    Liked 2,211 in 1,330 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    So was I. Good luck to you landing a Pan so hard that it could deck out
    I could do it, the bike might not be rideable afterwards, and I suspect I wouldn't be in too good condition either.



    Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk

  16. The following user liked this post made by Julian_Boolean:


  17. #29
    Really Bored Druid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Co Durham
    Posts
    3,331
    Like
    116
    Liked 434 in 233 posts

    Default Re: Sump woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian_Boolean View Post
    I was thinking of race bikes rather than Pans, but yes a bash plate would mean the rest of the bike would have to sit higher, alternatively make the sump stronger and use a flush fitting plug, though I can't remember owning a bike with a flush fitting sump plug, had a few cars with them.

    Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk
    My Dorsoduro's sump plug was in the side of the sump rather than underneath. You'd probably crack the sump if you landed it hard but at least you wouldn't rip the plug out.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Go Back to Forum My Forum