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Thread: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

  1. #91
    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Not valid at all. Right to buy doesn't compel anyone to purchase. The 'workshy' would simply remain in their rented council house.
    They are valid.

    When offered the right to buy at dirt cheap prices, these people in their well paid blue collar trade unionist jobs saw an opportunity that before would have simply only ever been a dream.

    They took it up.

  2. #92
    Should Get Out More Bobzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    Land is cheap*. Land with planning permission is expensive. It's expensive because of government regulations. Are you suggesting that government should be able to get planning permission for its own land easier than a developer can get permission? Shouldn't there be a level playing field?
    No, I'm suggesting that it costs relatively little to obtain planning permission. The reason that land is cheap but land with planning permission is expensive is because of the risk in being denied planning permission, and the risk relating to what planning permission will be granted and therefore what value can be extracted from a site. So there is a level playing field. Companies are free to buy land for their bank where planning permission has not been granted, but they run the risk of being turned down. Alternatively, the current owner of the land can get outline permission, but the developer pays more.

  3. #93
    Should Get Out More slowsider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    You're implying that there probably isn't a benefit to the government subsidising housing purchase. You're also implying that there is a benefit to the government subsidising housing rental. Is my perception correct and if so, why is rental better than purchase? And why should the government be involved?
    The answer to the latter can be found if you look back at the situation before the provision of council housing with people like Rachman.
    As for rental being better than purchase, the LA recoup their investment with house price inflation.

  4. #94
    Should Get Out More icarus1859's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    The answer to the latter can be found if you look back at the situation before the provision of council housing with people like Rachman.
    Antisemitism.
    Racist.

  5. #95
    Should Get Out More nidge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by icarus1859 View Post
    Snatching milk from babies?



    I disagree with more of her policies than I agree with, however, she was a brilliant mind in politics and it's a massive disservice (and ridiculous oversimplification) to suggest she sold council houses to stop people striking.
    If you're looking for an oversimplification then it would be "You get out of life what you put in" and giving people the opportunity to work to own their own homes was popular amongst many of the working class because it gave them a shot at something the previous ruling classes had largely denied them - although as we all know, selling council houses wasn't actually Thatchers idea.

    If it wasn't for Mrs Thatcher (and people like her) it's likely that I'd be working down an unprofitable coal mine, looking forward to an early death in my subsidised council slum and wishing I was somewhere comparatively exotic, like Eastern Europe.
    However, thanks to people like her I got a chance to work hard and be more than that.
    It may be an oversimplification (not sure if it's ridiculous or not) , but the offer of a bright, aspirational future, anchored in home ownership and the responsibility that goes with was not an altruistic gesture to help everyone achieve their potential. I believe it was much more driven by the need to break the union stranglehold, and to win votes form the (ridiculously overly simplified, I know...) labour voting renters to Tory voting owners

  6. #96
    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by icarus1859 View Post
    I disagree with more of her policies than I agree with, however, she was a brilliant mind in politics and it's a massive disservice (and ridiculous oversimplification) to suggest she sold council houses to stop people striking.
    You may find that ridiculous, yet it was a powerful tool to assist with breaking the unions.

    What better way to break a union, than to ensure it's members are no longer all together in passing a motion.

  7. #97
    Should Get Out More icarus1859's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by nidge View Post
    It may be an oversimplification (not sure if it's ridiculous or not) , but the offer of a bright, aspirational future, anchored in home ownership and the responsibility that goes with was not an altruistic gesture to help everyone achieve their potential. I believe it was much more driven by the need to break the union stranglehold, and to win votes form the (ridiculously overly simplified, I know...) labour voting renters to Tory voting owners
    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    You may find that ridiculous, yet it was a powerful tool to assist with breaking the unions.

    What better way to break a union, than to ensure it's members are no longer all together in passing a motion.
    Of course you're right in that it was a very effective tool, but it wasn't simply that she had a bee in her bonnet about the unions and wanted to wrestle power for the sake of gaining power for herself.
    It was that the unions were a thoroughly corrupt monster that held onto power by fear, domination and subjugation, it was literally a fight to free people from the tyranny of them and the best way to do that was to open the door to the prison cell and encourage them to run for the door - which as history has proven was exactly what they did.

  8. #98
    Should Get Out More nidge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Even as a paid up, card carrying member of the Conservative party, I find it hard to see Margaret Thatcher as the saviour of the downtrodden working classes...

  9. #99
    Should Get Out More icarus1859's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by nidge View Post
    Even as a paid up, card carrying member of the Conservative party, I find it hard to see Margaret Thatcher as the saviour of the downtrodden working classes...
    I never claimed that.
    I said she followed an ideology.

    Edited because I genuinely cba to get into a row about Thatcher.

  10. #100
    Should Get Out More nidge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by icarus1859 View Post
    I never claimed that.
    I said she followed an ideology.

    Edited because I genuinely cba to get into a row about Thatcher.
    Who's rowing I thought we were having a (relatively) civil discourse, interpreting (with the benefit of history) Maggie's reason behind the right to buy?

  11. #101
    Expecting rain saga_lout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    No, I'm suggesting that it costs relatively little to obtain planning permission. The reason that land is cheap but land with planning permission is expensive is because of the risk in being denied planning permission, and the risk relating to what planning permission will be granted and therefore what value can be extracted from a site. So there is a level playing field. Companies are free to buy land for their bank where planning permission has not been granted, but they run the risk of being turned down. Alternatively, the current owner of the land can get outline permission, but the developer pays more.
    That doesn't make sense. It's not a level playing field if the council can give itself planning permission while a developer has to go cap in hand to the council and risk being turned down.

    But even if the council does give itself planning permission, turning its 10,000 acre of land into a 1,000,000 acre of land, what makes you think the council would be better at building houses than a house builder? What makes you think the system would be better with even more government?

  12. #102
    Should Get Out More Bobzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by saga_lout View Post
    But even if the council does give itself planning permission, turning its 10,000 acre of land into a 1,000,000 acre of land, what makes you think the council would be better at building houses than a house builder? What makes you think the system would be better with even more government?
    I think you're being an arse for the sake of it, but I'm prepared to entertain you. I never said that a council would be better at building houses than a housebuilder, although if you've lived in a new build you might ask yourself how they could possibly be any worse. What I said is that in the matter of providing social housing, it is preferable for the government to do it themselves than for government to pay someone else to do it at a rate that includes renting the land on which the housing sits.

    And as for your comments about turning a 10k piece of land into a 1m piece of land, the land is only worth the extra if a purchaser could develop it. So why not grant permission subject to use in developing houses to be owned by government? It is still a 10k piece of land.

    You seem to be dancing around a question though.

    Is it right that it should be government policy that housing benefit will be used to pay off someone's mortgage generally, or just if the person who's mortgage it is doesn't actually live in the property?

  13. #103
    Should Get Out More Julian_Boolean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    I think you're being an arse for the sake of it,
    Isn't that the default setting for internet forum members?

    Anyway got my letter today about how much my mortgage is going to go up by, it's about 30 a month increase, what is nice though is that I now owe 10K less on my mortgage than I get paid p.a.

  14. #104
    Expecting rain saga_lout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    Is it right that it should be government policy that housing benefit will be used to pay off someone's mortgage generally, or just if the person who's mortgage it is doesn't actually live in the property?
    What if the owner of the property doesn't have a mortgage on it? Would it be OK for the tenant to receive housing benefit then?

    By the way, I think you're being an arse because you're an arse but I don't like to mention it.

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    Default Re: Has your mortgage gone up yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    FTFY

    Remember what Thatcher said was her proudest achievement?
    It was the Mr. Whippy wasn't it?

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