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Thread: Some Thoughts on IAM

  1. #181
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    I don't think they do completely... if I remember right, the engineers dialled about 50% dive back in with Telelever because the front felt 'dead' to the rider without it.

    I remember watching a trainee on a BM GS1150 hit the brakes halfway round a corner when a coach came the other way taking up quite a lot of room. The bike sat up and I have no idea how he avoided hitting it. It was one of the very few brown trouser moments I've had on my courses.
    Have you ridden a bike with trailing link front end? The front lifts under braking! Goes totally against expectations - the owner warned me that some people panic and lose the front when they overbrake and lock up.

    Intriguingly, on the Combe training day, Hopp suggested 'loading the front' into bends. I asked about the benefits and was told it didn't apply to me on the R.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    [QUOTE=Horse;2854993]Have you ridden a bike with trailing link front end? The front lifts under braking! Goes totally against expectations - the owner warned me that some people panic and lose the front when they overbrake and lock up.

    Yes, those Honda step through thingies.


    Intriguingly, on the Combe training day, Hopp suggested 'loading the front' into bends. I asked about the benefits and was told it didn't apply to me on the R.
    I remember you saying that... that's an area of significant confusion. I'm totally unconvinced by the idea because at the same time as you 'load the front' and increase the downward pressure adding grip, you're also adding a tangential force which wants to make the tyre slid out.

    And that means if you DO lose grip - and as I mentioned a moment ago, the road rarely has consistent grip - the added force is going to reduce your already slim chance of recovering on a non-ABS bike... as you see demonstrated at virtually any race meeting on the tv.

    I'm sure there's a solid explanation in one of the heavyweight motorcycle design books as to exactly what DOES happen but the one I looked at wasn't in English but in maths - not my strong point.

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Have you ridden a bike with trailing link front end? The front lifts under braking! Goes totally against expectations - the owner warned me that some people panic and lose the front when they overbrake and lock up.
    Yes, those Honda step through thingies.
    I've never had the pleasure of them! My oppo Paul could pogo his C50 at 30mph - great following him past traffic and seeing the disbelief on drivers' faces.

    The bike I borrowed was an old R50 BMW - hence the friendly advice from the owner

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Have you ridden a bike with trailing link front end? The front lifts under braking! Goes totally against expectations - the owner warned me that some people panic and lose the front when they overbrake and lock up
    That sounds more like a leading link front end, as found on old Honda scooterettes and mopeds.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Yes, could be, I can't be exact, but I know the marque because the owner was known as 'BMW Bob'

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Possibly:


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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    Suddenly 'low effort riding' - which is what I believe in and promote - becomes very important.

    Yes, of course I filtered, but I didn't ride like the idiot Deliveroo riders you see around now. But then I didn't crash like them either, not after the first few months. Just like my overtaking, my filtering was selective, and performed where the gains were likely to be high and the risks relatively low. If the road wasn't wide and relatively free of turnings, then most of the filtering was done when other traffic was stationary. I was nearly always slower than commuting riders when it came to heading out of town at 6pm in the evening.
    I've never been a courier, but this is exactly how I ride (and drive). I learn't my lesson commuting by car in the 80's - a 120 mile round trip every day. After about 6 months of hooning up the M42 flat out, double de-clutching and heel and toe braking round the twisty country roads and doing my damndest to overtake wherever possible, I just felt so knackered one morning that I drifted up to work at 65mph on the motorways and 55mph on the country roads, and guess what? I arrived at work about 5 minutes after my normal arrival time (that's an hour and 20mins intead of an hour and 15 mins), but I felt as fresh as a daisy.

    This is not to say I never overtake, or filter - I do, but only past stationary (or walking pace) traffic and only where there are significant gains to be made, ie. if there are only three or four cars in front of me at the lights, I wont bother. I only overtake if there is someone doing say 25 in a 40 or 40 in a 60, ie. a quite significant difference in the speed I want to be doing.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Trailing link suspension on an Ariel Leader.
    Ariel Leader.jpg

    Also used on the Arrow but, of course, I prefer the look of the Leader.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Breaker View Post
    Trailing link suspension on an Ariel Leader.
    Ariel Leader.jpg

    Also used on the Arrow but, of course, I prefer the look of the Leader.
    Agreed! Plus, of course, they pre-invented the BMW brick engine and K series bikes!

    http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod..._prototype.htm

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Breaker View Post
    Trailing link suspension on an Ariel Leader.
    Ariel Leader.jpg

    Also used on the Arrow but, of course, I prefer the look of the Leader.
    That's because you're an LE rider.....



    The Arrow / Leader front brake is actually well designed (as is the rest of it) although much derided by people who don't understand it. It gives nice level braking with just a touch of dive due to the geometry.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    I don't think they do completely... if I remember right, the engineers dialled about 50% dive back in with Telelever because the front felt 'dead' to the rider without it.
    IIRC its more like 20%, but it's actually just a change in stance, more than traditional "dive". The bike doesn't pogo back up, it adjusts and then remains in that attutude. Very, very stable system. You then get another change in stance when you open the throttle hard coming out, but only when you put enough power down.

    Of course it could be that my 120,000 mile Rockster had sticking swingarm bearings.......


    I remember watching a trainee on a BM GS1150 hit the brakes halfway round a corner when a coach came the other way taking up quite a lot of room. The bike sat up and I have no idea how he avoided hitting it. It was one of the very few brown trouser moments I've had on my courses.
    I think that may have been a specific example of rider bias, the rider causing something to happen because he expects it to happen. Certainly I've managed to brake hard mid corner and the bike stay down. (unless i wanted to change line anyway... )
    Depends a lot on how much experience one has with the bike, especially with something as "out of the ordinary" as Telelever can seem.

  13. #192
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts on IAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Agreed! Plus, of course, they pre-invented the BMW brick engine and K series bikes!

    http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod..._prototype.htm
    "Morris Minor car clutch"

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