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Thread: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer Stalker View Post
    When I was involved in Bikesafe I would point out to the assembled that related training could take many forms, yes IAM and ROSPA but also track, off road, slow riding, mental approach etc and very definately other pro trainers
    Yes, Kat Smith (who was active in 'the other place') as Brat, if I remember right who was the original BikeSafe London coordinator was very happy to mention "and reputable pro trainers". When she moved on, I sent the new coordinator a quick email introducing myself and mentioning Kat and I had exchanged ideas... I didn't even get an acknowledgement.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Personally I feel any activity where you’re given advice or instruction can be classified as training.

    I’ve done various ‘courses’ in the earlier years of my riding career including bikesafe and the observed rides that my local police bike section did were probably among the most consise and effective advice and instruction I’ve had.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    Personally I feel any activity where you’re given advice or instruction can be classified as training.

    I’ve done various ‘courses’ in the earlier years of my riding career including bikesafe and the observed rides that my local police bike section did were probably among the most consise and effective advice and instruction I’ve had.
    Actually, the Met BikeSafe team were the ones to point out back in May that BikeSafe was NOT training - their emphasis too.

    In any case, I'd still disagree with you. BikeSafe is not a structured training course. A learning opportunity yes, but not training.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    I did it about a month ago at Chigwell - learnt loads - to much to go into now but it's an observed ride .
    It could probably do with a re fresh but then it might get a bit cumbersome in organisation .

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    oed on training’
    the action of teaching a person or animal a particular skill or type of behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by asmethurst View Post
    i did it about a month ago at chigwell - learnt loads - to much to go into now but it's an observed ride .
    Bikesafe and observed rides may not be ‘a structured training course’, but it is definitely ‘training’ as people are learning stuff from it. QED

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    Bikesafe and observed rides may not be ‘a structured training course’, but it is definitely ‘training’ as SOME people are learning stuff from it. QED
    ftfy

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    Bikesafe and observed rides may not be ‘a structured training course’, but it is definitely ‘training’ as people are learning stuff from it. QED
    Hopefully they get to understand the reasons / justifications / considerations / concerns / caveats / exclusions / etc. that go along with the learning

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Hopefully they get to understand the reasons / justifications / considerations / concerns / caveats / exclusions / etc. that go along with the learning
    e.g.:

    Evaluation of Bikesafe Scotland
    Rachel Ormston, Anna Dudleston and Stephen Pearson (NFO Social Research)
    and
    Steve Stradling (Napier University)

    ■ The research indicates that participants do find the Bikesafe Assessed Ride programme useful, and that participating has a beneficial impact in terms of improving participants’ control over their bikes and encouraging them to ride defensively.

    ■ However, there was evidence to suggest that some participants may be riding faster in some situations after taking part in
    Bikesafe. It may be that some participants are engaging in ‘risk compensation’ – they feel that they have become better riders, and are therefore better equipped to ride at speed.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    e.g.:

    Evaluation of Bikesafe Scotland
    Rachel Ormston, Anna Dudleston and Stephen Pearson (NFO Social Research)
    and
    Steve Stradling (Napier University)

    ■ The research indicates that participants do find the Bikesafe Assessed Ride programme useful, and that participating has a beneficial impact in terms of improving participants’ control over their bikes and encouraging them to ride defensively.

    ■ However, there was evidence to suggest that some participants may be riding faster in some situations after taking part in
    Bikesafe. It may be that some participants are engaging in ‘risk compensation’ – they feel that they have become better riders, and are therefore better equipped to ride at speed.
    I think post training overconfidence is an issue with motorcycle training no matter what type of training it is.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    ftfy
    So, if some riders don't really benefit from it then it's not training?

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    So, if some riders don't really benefit from it then it's not training?
    OK, serious answer: what was the purpose of the training? In the case of Bikesafe Scotland, did they want to get riders traveling faster on country roads and feeling safer while doing it? If yes, then they achieved their aims (or learning intention). If no, well they still trained them and they learned something - just not what was intended.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    OK, serious answer: what was the purpose of the training? In the case of Bikesafe Scotland, did they want to get riders traveling faster on country roads and feeling safer while doing it? If yes, then they achieved their aims (or learning intention). If no, well they still trained them and they learned something - just not what was intended.
    So we're agreed that bikesafe is training then, whether the outcome is desired or not?

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    So we're agreed that bikesafe is training then, whether the outcome is desired or not?
    They say it's a'workshop'.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    They say it's a'workshop'.
    You ride a bit, talk about approach to hazards, talk about what went well, talk about what didn't go so well. Discuss what could be done better, discuss how it could be done better.

    It's not rocket science we're talking about here. If someone is showing someone else how to do something a little better than they're currently doing it then it's training, no matter how you might want to 'set yourself apart'.

    I know this place is pedantic but this whole premise of putting down other trainers and training methods is becoming old and tiresome. No wonder there's only one or two posters show their face in here anymore.

    But, hey ho.

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    Default Re: Repeat after me: "BikeSafe is NOT training".

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    If someone is showing someone else how to do something a little better than they're currently doing it then it's training, no matter how you might want to 'set yourself apart'.
    I believe* that on the odd occasion I have shown another person how to do something a little better than they have been but there's no way it would be called training.

    *Yes, I may be delusional.

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