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Thread: The Brexit bottom line ...

  1. #31
    Should Get Out More JamJar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by balbas View Post
    Works for Norway...

    Mind, I don't think the common travel area is a bad thing so...
    Norway is part of the common market and crucially allows free movement, something I thought Brexiteers didn't want.

  2. #32
    Should Get Out More Reburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JamJar View Post
    Norway is part of the common market and crucially allows free movement, something I thought Brexiteers didn't want.
    One of the greatest problems with this is there is no 'single mind' of Brexiteer. They all want different things and are seemingly prepared to bring the Government down over their differences.

    Taking back control my arse.

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  4. #33
    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JamJar View Post
    Norway is part of the common market and crucially allows free movement, something I thought Brexiteers didn't want.
    What we wanted was the stay in the common market but not be a part of the political union, but the EU wouldn't let us. Cameron did warn the EU what the result would be, but they didn't believe him.

  5. #34
    Should Get Out More irie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    Maybe let the people of N Ireland decide with a referendum? An interesting poll I read this morning suggests that the majority would support a united Ireland if Brexit goes ahead, while that majority shifted to staying within the UK if the UK remains in the EU. Interesting in that it shows Brexit plays a more important role than religion where a united Ireland is concerned.
    Of course, southern Ireland may not have the appetite for a united Ireland, especially given the financial consequences it could suffer in the event of a hard Brexit.
    Can't argue with that logic. The Scottish Krankie wouldn't object either.

  6. #35
    Should Get Out More Kneerly Down's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Britain wants to control EU migrants. In the absence of a border, how will it do that ? By relying on another country to do it? So much for 'taking back control'.
    The common travel area can't function over an external border. It worked before both states joined the EU and it worked afterwards, like a mini-Schengen.
    It works at the moment as regards illegal migrants from non-EU countries.
    i.e. The UK is reliant NOW on Ireland not allowing illegal migrants from non-EU countries into Ireland and hence UK.
    So nothing changes as regards illegal migrants from non-EU countries.
    Obviously there, generally, are no illegal migrants from EU countries, due to freedom of movement.
    The thing that will change is that there may be the potential of now-illegal migrants from EU countries post-Brexit.

    How do you control EU migrants in that instance...
    By making laws.
    As said earlier:
    Are you suggesting that EU migrants would rather be in the UK illegally than anywhere else in the EU legally?
    Is it a genuine issue that EU nationals will be coming illegally to the UK through Ireland...if so how bad are things really in the EU?!

  7. #36
    Should Get Out More DefTrap's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by irie View Post
    Can't argue with that logic. The Scottish Krankie wouldn't object either.
    No more referendums - just increasingly ludicrous "solutions".

  8. #37
    Should Get Out More balbas's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JamJar View Post
    Norway is part of the common market and crucially allows free movement, something I thought Brexiteers didn't want.
    Well that's pretty crazy. People are strange.

  9. #38
    Should Get Out More Noggin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutin View Post
    Option 2 appears to only be a problem to the DUP.

    And the only reason that anybody is taking any notice of them at all is that they are propping up May's travesty of a government. If she didn't need them then they would have been completely ignored.

    They are not even representing the wishes of the electorate of Northern Ireland which voted, by some margin, to remain in the EU. They are only interested in pushing their own twisted agenda.
    I think you'll find its a missive issue to a lot of people both sides of the currently soft border!!




    Quote Originally Posted by adamski View Post
    It seems that the 3rd option is missing!

    3, stop the madness, accept it is possible but not sensible to leave the EU, and retract a,50.

    This. Surely it is now clear that what was voted for is not possible without massive damage/implications all round.

    Withdraw and start clearing up the mess - whilst making it more difficult illegal immigrants (which we could have done before the vote) and address some of the issues that made people want to vote out.

    More importantly - get the public to actually learn about politics and vote people into Parliament that have some spine and integrity.

    Of course, we may at the same time find that Unicorns and Dodo's aren't actual mythilogical or extinct

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  11. #39
    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    It's not hard to understand, unless you're a Tory politician.

    1. NI continues to be part of the EU, in fact or effect, and there is no border between north and south, plus the Good Friday Agreement continues to keep the peace. Unacceptable to the DUP because it would mean the UK/EU border would have to move to the Irish Sea, or

    2. NI leaves the EU and remains fully aligned with the rUK, meaning a border would need to exist between north and south Ireland to prevent smuggling of people and goods into either zone. Unacceptable to the EU and would result in a stopper to the UK getting any trade agreement with the EU. Also a high probability of re-igniting the Troubles, bombs in British pubs, soldiers being shot, etc.

    May's approach is to pretend that technology that doesn't yet exist could create a virtual border in Ireland, in which movement of people is checked by cameras and goods by declarations at source. It's got so many loopholes that you could drive many artics a week through it, as they would.

    Bear in mind all these logical and semantic gymnastics are just to try and get round Ireland being a stopper to the UK and EU striking a comprehensive trade deal. The issues of free movement of labour, what tariff levels should apply and which products and services will have what access to what EU markets have not even been touched. And remember the red lines of the brexit ultras, no free movement of people but they demand free movement of everything in the reverse direction, and have the numbers to vote down anything that doesn't deliver their nationalist pipe dream.

    And despite the brexiters having had decades before the referendum plus two intensive years since it to come up with ideas and solutions, we still don't have any answers from them.

  12. #40
    At Work CrazyFrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noggin View Post
    Withdraw and start clearing up the mess - whilst making it more difficult illegal immigrants (which we could have done before the vote) and address some of the issues that made people want to vote out.
    The point is that the UK, whilst still in the EU, can't address the issues which made people vote leave, only the EU can. David Cameron gave them the chance to address these issues and they metaphorically told him to FO, hence the leave vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noggin View Post
    More importantly - get the public to actually learn about politics and vote people into Parliament that have some spine and integrity.
    Great idea, though you can only vote for the names on your ballot paper, and sadly 90% of those names will have come out of the entitled old boys Eton/Harrow Oxford/Cambridge club, as they have always done. The country was given the chance to at least start to change this in the 2011 PR referendum, but amazingly the vast majority of people who bothered to vote think the current system is just fine and dandy.

  13. #41
    Should Get Out More DefTrap's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    I'm not sure the brexit debacle does much to further the cause of PR.

  14. #42
    Should Get Out More Julian_Boolean's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    What we wanted was the stay in the common market but not be a part of the political union, but the EU wouldn't let us. Cameron did warn the EU what the result would be, but they didn't believe him.
    Yes they would and still will, we can go into the European Economic Area anytime we want to.

  15. #43
    Should Get Out More Kneerly Down's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    TC.
    Will there really be a people smuggling issue of EU citizens post-Brexit?
    Is the EU THAT BAD?

  16. #44
    At Work Falcoholic's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Northern Ireland will not be leaving the UK at any point.

    If the EU wants a border let them build and police it. Ireland will get pissed off with it and, just when the Italians et al make their own escape from the EU and the EU collapses the Irish will tear the border fences down in a "Berlin Wall" type party and get pissed for a week or more at the time, vowing to celebrate it every year forever.

    The recent "negotiations" have shown up just exactly what a huge bully the EU is lead primarily by Germany with the help of France. It's 100 years almost since the end of WW1. It just proves that all of those lives lost then, and in the subsequent WW2 was all for nothing. We should have just handed ourselves over to the Germans then and saved all of those lives. And don't start me on the French, they seem to have developed selective amnesia and will side with anyone they think that they will benefit from. Creepy bastards.

    We should have left the EU the week after the vote and negotiated from a position of strength. That horse has not only bolted, but suffered a fatal equine heart attack halfway across the yard.

    Fuck the EU. Fuck Barnier and Junker and the rest.

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    GJH

  18. #45
    Should Get Out More balbas's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Regardless of views on the leave vote I find myself thinking we need to leave now. If we don't leave at this point then we will always be Europe's bitch and I don't think we'd ever be taken seriously on the world stage again.

    Painful though it might be, I suspect retracting Article 50 will end up being more painful long term.

    It's a wicked conundrum, that's for sure.

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