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Thread: The Brexit bottom line ...

  1. #8986
    Should Get Out More Screwdriver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    we
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    They
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    When it was originally proposed, one major country more than half of the EU opposed severely restricting the importation of Chinese steel.
    I can put my spin on it too you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    Actually, the state aid issues here are quite complex. Where there is a will, there is usually a way. The issue is that there isn't a will.
    They are vastly complex, unnecessarily so imho, easier to do it ourselves. Normally we would vote in a government which would instigate those policies acceptable to the majority of the UK population.

    As a member of the EU we vote in a government which will lobby the EU on our behalf to try and implement policies beneficial to the UK but moderated by the needs of a much larger number of poorer countries. Countries which don't even have a steel industry. If we (the people) object, the government can shrug its shoulders and say "the EU". There may be a case for suggesting "look where that got them"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    you can't just keep subsidising a private entity (it's not a bank )
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    1 - No, you can't. You can't just subsidise anything ad infinitum if it is structurally loss making. And that's not just the EU that says that.
    Well err, yeah, I just said that.

    If I was being a cynic I would suggest the bank bailout was to largely to protect the financial interests of a small number of very wealthy Tory supporters and their shareholders. There are indeed many other ways they could have protected the greater interest for the wider community. When it comes to the steel industry, who cares about a few thousand workers and tens of thousands who depend on it. They're not rich Tory voters; fuck 'em...

  2. #8987
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    I can put my spin on it too you know.



    They are vastly complex, unnecessarily so imho, easier to do it ourselves. Normally we would vote in a government which would instigate those policies acceptable to the majority of the UK population.

    As a member of the EU we vote in a government which will lobby the EU on our behalf to try and implement policies beneficial to the UK but moderated by the needs of a much larger number of poorer countries. Countries which don't even have a steel industry. If we (the people) object, the government can shrug its shoulders and say "the EU". There may be a case for suggesting "look where that got them"...
    23 countries within the EU are producers of steel


    Do you honestly believe that we won't still be party to state aid controls if we want a trade agreement with the EU after Brexit?
    The UK has proposed the EU that the UK will follow a common rulebook on state aid whereby the UK continues to apply the existing EU state aid law. At this point, it is unknown how much of this Government proposal will be included in the future EU-UK Agreement, but state aid appears to be one of the less contentious aspects of cooperation, as both sides are keen on preserving a level playing field for their businesses.
    As Bobz has said, there are exceptions in the EU rules which allow state aid, some of which would likely apply to British Steel. A recent study by the IPPR found that the UK could triple its state aid under EU laws if it wished to do so.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    As Bobz has said, there are exceptions in the EU rules which allow state aid, some of which would likely apply to British Steel. A recent study by the IPPR found that the UK could triple its state aid under EU laws if it wished to do so.
    One of my old EU law professors did a study on the Labour manifesto. About 3 of the policies would need minor adjustments. A couple would fall within exemptions already in place. A few would need notification to the Commission but would likely pass as not aid, and the rest were nowhere near state aid. The leftist idea that State Aid rules would block their plans is a lie. Either about the State Aid rules or about their plans.

    For a more accurate summary see below.

    https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-a...d-fact-checked

  4. #8989
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    23 countries within the EU are producers of steel

    Do you honestly believe that we won't still be party to state aid controls if we want a trade agreement with the EU after Brexit?

    As Bobz has said, there are exceptions in the EU rules which allow state aid, some of which would likely apply to British Steel. A recent study by the IPPR found that the UK could triple its state aid under EU laws if it wished to do so.
    No and there are terms for fair trading even under WTO rules, though they don't appear to apply to China...

    However, I find myself in the difficult position of trying to defend the current shower of shit we refer to as our government. I may have to get back to you.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver
    Oh.Oh. I know. Why don't we just stick a tariff on that cheapo Chinese steel, stop them from dumping their problems onto us at a loss they can afford.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    The EU did, back in February The UK voted in favour.
    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/pre...steel-products
    Quote Originally Posted by irie
    Your link refers to tariffs on US steel, not Chinese steel.

    A Commission investigation was launched in March 2018 as part of the European Union's response to the decision by the United States to impose tariffs on steel products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    No, it refers to steel tariffs across the board, once individual quotas have been reached, ie you can import x amount before we apply tariffs. The US is mentioned heavily because its decision to impose tariffs on steel saw a large increase in the amount of steel coming into the EU, as the US was no longer an attractive place to export to.
    Nice swerve, but China is not mentioned in your link.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by irie View Post
    Nice swerve, but China is not mentioned in your link.
    Sorry, in future I'll make an allowance for thickos who need everything spelled out.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    However, I find myself in the difficult position of trying to defend the current shower of shit we refer to as our government. I may have to get back to you.
    Have a read of the US draft demands for a trade agreement with the UK. And hope that by the time it comes round to negotiating it, the current shower of shit have long gone.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    Have a read of the US draft demands for a trade agreement with the UK. And hope that by the time it comes round to negotiating it, the current shower of shit have long gone.
    Have you read Noam Chomsky's book "Who Rules the World"?

    Here was me thinking it was nice to live in a "Grand Area"...

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    . If we can escape from EU control, whichever government is voted into office will have to answer to the British public as to why they are keen to destroy our steel industry or become indebted to China. The wider community within the UK can get to decide what sort of society they want to enjoy via a democratic process.
    You mean, like the coal industry ?

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzilla View Post
    Ive got a couple of mates who will be getting paid off .

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrTack View Post
    Ive got a couple of mates who will be getting paid off .
    My condolences to them. First casualties.

    I am seriously wondering whether SCM will come in with a surprise rescue package, either standalone or as part of a consortium...

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    You mean, like the coal industry ?
    Where there is a will there is a way. When State Aid is cited as a blocker, it is quite often that there isn't a will.

    The Commission can pre-clear aid regimes, and often a state aid investigation takes quite a while to complete. Not entirely within the spirit of things, but it would be entirely open to Government to grant the aid to fix a short term issue and then worry about recovery of any impermissible aid when the Commission makes its decision, and all the appeals have been heard etc.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    Sorry, in future I'll make an allowance for thickos who need everything spelled out.

    Last edited by irie; 22-05-19 at 18:30. Reason: Insert image

  14. #8999
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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    You mean, like the coal industry ?
    Coal and steel go hand in hand. It's why China are doing so well because they are smack in the middle of their own industrial revolution

    Your snide comments are getting tiresome. If you don't have anything to say, best not say anything.

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    Default Re: The Brexit bottom line ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Coal and steel go hand in hand. It's why China are doing so well because they are smack in the middle of their own industrial revolution

    Your snide comments are getting tiresome. If you don't have anything to say, best not say anything.
    Snide = disagrees with you ?

    Do you think it necessary to mention the connection between coal and steel in Brexit thread of all things, given the origins of the eu ?
    Given your argument, if Britain doesn't have a coal industry, what does it need a steel industry for?

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