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Thread: That ICONS programme?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?


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    Particularly that person though. October Revolution probably wouldn’t have happened without Lenin, according to contemporaries including Trotsky and Stalin. So no Soviet Union in the form it became, and especially the doctrine of international revolution. Which means possibly no Chinese communist party in the same form, maybe no revolution or different outcome to the Chinese Civil War. No PRC means no support for Khmer Rouge and hard for Pol Pot to describe himself as a “Maoist-Leninist”

    Hitler? No Soviet Union means less credence for the “stab in the back” theory and much less communist agitation and reactive conservative fear in the Weimar Republic letting the Nazis in in the first place. Remember that the “enabling law” which opened the door to dictatorship was passed as the result of a communist fear campaign, however fabricated

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  3. #17
    Should Get Out More GiantPygmy's Avatar
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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    I thought Chris Packham did a great job of advocating Turing. As a standalone summary of his influence I thought it was great.

    As already stated, its difficult to argue against the those war and revolution starters being the people who were most influential in the 20th century but it was about being "iconic" rather than purely influential. They could have had a despot category I suppose!

    Offering up Chaplin, Marilyn Munroe, Biilie Holiday and Bowie as most iconic "entertainers" was really odd IMO. No Elvis? Mick Jagger even?

    I thought Picasso was a good choice but there again, why throw writers and artists together? Tanni Grey- Thompson top 4 most iconic sports people? a case of the BBC being ultra PC i reckon?

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  5. #18
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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    Disagree about Lenin et al being more influential than Turing.

    In 500 years time Lenin, Pol Pot, Hitler and everyone else will be as vague a historical figure as Genghis Kahn and Alexander the Great...most poeple probably think of those two people as being "some time in History" and probably aren't that aware/bothered that they're seperated by more then 1000 years. The same will be true of Lenin, Hitler and Napolean in the not too distant future.

    Turing on the other hand laid the foundation of the maths behind computers with the "Universal Turing Machine". All the code breaking stuff and even WW2 itself is a footnote compared to that significance. I've said it before, but I think the introduction of computers is a more significant event than the steam engine and we're currently living in a period of history at least as significant as the Industrial Revolution.

    You could of course argue that someone else would have come up with the same thing sooner or later, but that's pretty impossible to know isn't it?

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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawker View Post
    They argued that he showed it was okay to be different. They considered that many current artistes borrow from Bowie, eg Lady Gaga and others. But I think it is over-stating his importance to compare hi significance to icons like Ali, Luther King, Picasso. I suspect they will be famous long after Bowie has gone from popular memory?
    .
    Ali just hit people hard. Difficult to imagine the Nation of Islam having much success if they had formed after 9/11.
    MLK plagiarized his PhD.
    Two of Picasso's women went made and two others killed themselves.

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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Ali just hit people hard. Difficult to imagine the Nation of Islam having much success if they had formed after 9/11.
    MLK plagiarized his PhD.
    Two of Picasso's women went made and two others killed themselves.
    It is hard to disagree about Ali but he was an icon at the time and make a noble self- sacrificial stand against the establishment about going to war. I think that Picasso's art will still be recognisable by people in 100 years. Also MLK? I confess that I don't know about that but his oratory will likewise still be famous in 100 years, and used as a battle-cry against racism/ prejudice and bigotry. Thatiswhat makes them icons as far as I'm concerned. Ali had his super-sized-ego but he undoubtedly was an icon around the world his whole life.

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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Ali just hit people hard. Difficult to imagine the Nation of Islam having much success if they had formed after 9/11.
    MLK plagiarized his PhD.
    Two of Picasso's women went made and two others killed themselves.
    All idols have feet of clay. It doesn't take away their achievements.

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  11. #22
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    Default Re: That ICONS programme?

    Quote Originally Posted by moth View Post
    All idols have feet of clay. It doesn't take away their achievements.
    Clay. Very good

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