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Thread: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster


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    Just saw the pictures of the crash site. That thing nose certainly dived to the floor! Interesting point made about the software upgrade containing auto anti stall, where it will point the nose down if it thinks it's going to stall. If that happens, the pilot can only manually override it by manually trimming it back with the thumb controls. I've advised them to start looking there...

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    Should Get Out More KorkyKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Australia now joins the ever growing list of countries to not allow them.

    TUI and the Norwegians claim they are okay.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47536502

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    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    TUI, another company not interested in safety and peoples lives.

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    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    CAA have now grounded them!

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Taipan View Post
    Just saw the pictures of the crash site. That thing nose certainly dived to the floor! Interesting point made about the software upgrade containing auto anti stall, where it will point the nose down if it thinks it's going to stall. If that happens, the pilot can only manually override it by manually trimming it back with the thumb controls. I've advised them to start looking there...
    From reading in to it (and from Iries link) it appears Boeing have been looking at this issue for some time. They say a software update is imminent in a few weeks...There's no way you could get an aircraft flight control software fix written and approved in a few weeks, so they must have had it in the works for a while.

    Don't for one moment though think Boeing have been deliberately keeping it on the downlow and gambling nothing goes wrong. Aircraft companies just don't work that way. If anything they will have not realised the significance of the problem, rather than ignoring or downplaying it. The vast majority of their employees fly on their own products at some point for a start!

    Not sure if that makes it better or worse. Ignorance or ambivalence?

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Norwegians have had a change of mind. Now grounded.

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by protoborg View Post
    This guy is a commercial pilot and is fairly good at explaining stuff
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKmS866ZTaQ
    The guy in this video was saying there was a quirk in the control system and to me it sounded like it was a fault.

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    This might explain what happened.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...094532350.html

    The MCAS, introduced with the launch the 737 MAX 8 in May 2017, was the result of an effort to equip the new model with larger and more fuel-efficient engines. These were placed further forward and higher on the wing, altering the aircraft's balance. This resulted in the plane's nose pitching upwards in certain circumstances.

    To solve the problem, Boeing added the MCAS flight-control system, which automatically pushed the aircraft's nose down when a sensor indicated the plane was at risk of stalling.

    The MCAS is designed to only activate when the wing flaps are retracted after take-off and the aircraft has gained altitude. However, it is speculated this system may have played a part in both accidents, with the climbing and diving behaviour of the flight the result of the pilot's struggle to overcome the automated system.


    Following the Lion Air crash in October 2018, which killed 189 people, it was reported that the addition of the MCAS flight-control system had not been adequately explained to pilots, possibly making them ill-prepared if it were to activate during flight.

    At the time, Boeing denied the company had "intentionally withheld" information about the new system. According to digital aviation publication Air Current, citing an internal Boeing memo, company CEO Dennis Muilenburg told staff the "relevant function [of MCAS] is described in the Flight Crew Operations Manual".

    "We routinely engage with customers about how to operate our airplanes safely," Muilenburg said in the memo, according to an Air Current report.

    But pilots flying the aircraft for Southwest Airlines were reported to have been told that it was likely they would never see the system at work as "it operates in situations where the aircraft is under relatively high g load and near stall … designed to assist the pilot during recover, and likely going unnoticed by the pilot."

    Air Current, citing a Q&A document provided to pilots at SouthWest Airlines, said staff were told this was why "Boeing did not include an MCAS description in its Flight Crew Operations Manual".
    (My highlights)

    So, as said above, if the crew was unaware of how MCAS operated they will have been very confused by the aircraft reacting in unexpected ways to their control inputs.

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    Should Get Out More ZRX61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by irie View Post
    This might explain what happened.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...094532350.html



    (My highlights)

    So, as said above, if the crew was unaware of how MCAS operated they will have been very confused by the aircraft reacting in unexpected ways to their control inputs.
    In the case of the Lion Air crash every time the pilots tried to climb the computer pushed the nose down. 20+ times.

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    ABC reporter described the size of the debris field as "The size of a small hotel lobby"....WTF? I'll take "strange analogies for $800 please Alex...

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    US just grounded them. Announcement apparently came from Trump so not sure whose idea it actually was. Vietnam Blumenthal & Feinstein were calling for it yesterday.

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    US just grounded them. Announcement apparently came from Trump so not sure whose idea it actually was. Vietnam Blumenthal & Feinstein were calling for it yesterday.
    Just heard the same. Something fishy seems to be going on. I heard one of the US pilots this morning. He said his Union had to protest strongly to Boeing about the lack of information regards the software. They eventually gave it to them with the training but it appears or is alleged they haven’t done so across the world.

    Boeing’s stock value has taken a major hit.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/13/u...max/index.html

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by KorkyKat View Post
    Just heard the same. Something fishy seems to be going on. I heard one of the US pilots this morning. He said his Union had to protest strongly to Boeing about the lack of information regards the software. They eventually gave it to them with the training but it appears or is alleged they haven’t done so across the world.

    Boeing’s stock value has taken a major hit.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/13/u...max/index.html
    Wow, looks like Boeing will be facing staggering amounts of litigation!

    Quote Originally Posted by CNN
    US pilots who fly the Boeing 737 Max have registered complaints about the way the jet has performed in flight, according to a federal database accessed by CNN.

    In one of the complaints, a captain reported an autopilot anomaly which led to a brief nose-down situation -- where the front of the aircraft pointed down, according to the federal database.

    In another complaint, a first officer reported that the aircraft pitched nose down after the autopilot was engaged during departure. The autopilot was then disconnected and flight continued to its destination, according to the database.


    Although the data doesn't identify the pilots or their airlines, two US carriers fly the 737 Max 8: American Airlines and Southwest.

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster

    Boeing Media Release.

    “March 13, 2019 – Boeing continues to have full confidence in the safety of the 737 MAX. However, after consultation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and aviation authorities and its customers around the world, Boeing has determined - out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety - to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft.”

    In full:

    https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=130404

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    Default Re: Aircraft: Boing 737 Max Disaster


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