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Thread: A question about filtering!

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More slowsider's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!


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    Quote Originally Posted by rich6 View Post


    It's also interesting that car drivers rarely pull out in front of 45 ton HGV's... Is this just because they are bigger or is it because they are scary and likely to pulverise you?

    Another factor that comes into play is the relative lack of bikes on the road in the UK
    There are lots of trucks on the road, drivers expect to see them. Bikes, not so much.
    Bikes are quite capable of killing drivers, so pulverisation is not a necessity.

    I wouldn't say filtering was 'extremely dangerous' but it does have an elevated risk. Managing risks starts with identifying them, so give yourself enough time to do that, and enough space to evade them.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    MCN had some useful tips for filtering.

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    Should Get Out More RiceBurner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by rich6 View Post
    Ha!

    From the linked blog/lecture on the phsycology of not seeing, we need to weave about with our arms waving at all times, while dressed in clown suits, in order to have a chance of being seen.

    After reading that, it's pretty amazing there are any bikers still alive!


    It is interesting that rear LED lights do actually strobe, but I believe this is just to dim them from full intensity so they don't degrade or overheat, but as a side effect also makes them stand out more in your peripheral vision.

    I'd say: stop thinking about making yourself 'visible' and start thinking about how to just stay away from trouble. Why make your safety someone else's responsibility? Your safety is YOUR responsibility, ride to keep yourself safe. If they see you, great, but you simply cannot guarantee that, so work to guarantee your safety by your own positive actions, not relying on other peoples.

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  5. #19
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by RiceBurner View Post
    I'd say: stop thinking about making yourself 'visible' and start thinking about how to just stay away from trouble. Why make your safety someone else's responsibility? Your safety is YOUR responsibility, ride to keep yourself safe. If they see you, great, but you simply cannot guarantee that, so work to guarantee your safety by your own positive actions, not relying on other peoples.
    Yep totally agree. Defensive riding.

    (but making yourself more visible is always a good idea!)

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    There are lots of trucks on the road, drivers expect to see them. Bikes, not so much.
    Bikes are quite capable of killing drivers, so pulverisation is not a necessity.

    I wouldn't say filtering was 'extremely dangerous' but it does have an elevated risk. Managing risks starts with identifying them, so give yourself enough time to do that, and enough space to evade them.
    The MCN article used the quote “an activity fraught with danger” to describe filtering!

    It's certainly more risky than sitting in the queue with the cars...

    I do like your sig: Expect Nothing. Be Prepared for Anything. A good mantra!

  7. #21
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by rich6 View Post
    Yep totally agree. Defensive riding.

    (but making yourself more visible is always a good idea!)
    Do you mean visible, or is conspicuous the term you actually mean? Often used interchangeably, they're distinctly different.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Do you mean visible, or is conspicuous the term you actually mean? Often used interchangeably, they're distinctly different.
    Conspicuous, I think! As in easily seen or noticed; readily visible or observable rather than having outstanding qualities or eccentricities. No good being conspicious by turning up at a Harley meet on a Goldwing.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by rich6 View Post
    Conspicuous, I think! As in easily seen or noticed; readily visible or observable rather than having outstanding qualities or eccentricities. No good being conspicious by turning up at a Harley meet on a Goldwing.
    Anyone would think you had just Googled it . . .

    So, "rather than having outstanding qualities or eccentricities", how does that square with dressing as a clown?

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    Should Get Out More RiceBurner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    So - have you started riding to work yet? What's your rough route? Which city? New York, London, Paris, Munich??

  11. #25
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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Knowledge or otherwise of the road in question has a lot to do with the risk level. If you commute along the same route you will slowly learn where all the dangerous junctions are, where people tend to turn right, and where there usually are, and are not, queues (U-turns being far more likely where an unusual queue has formed). You don't need to actively "learn" these things, you just pick them up from experience, and you will speed up and get safer accordingly. When you end up filtering in a place you don't' know so well, you will slow down simply out of an anxious appreciation of your lack of familiarity.

    You need to learn to use your whole vision too. Don't look at something when engaging in a complex activity like filtering. Keep your vision up and in the middle distance, kind of relax your eyes into a lazy stare, and take in all the available information right across from one periphery to the other. You need to spot pedestrians, cyclists, car wheels, junctions, traffic light colours etc. Any movement you are scanning for needs to be picked up without taking your eyes off the middle distance. It might sound difficult, but once you pick this skill up you will be able to detect what you need to detect without focusing on it specifically. If you just look straight at things then that is all you will see, and you will miss loads. Its a bit zen, but once you get this, it will help you a lot. The more you can take in the safer you'll be. Its not really about speed, it's about good observation, and that's what you need to concentrate on more than anything else.

    Also, it almost goes without saying, but familiarity with your bike is important. You need to be able to perform any slow to mid speed maneuver without thinking about it. If you are thinking about controlling the machine, then you are at a much higher risk of an accident because you're not focusing on the external influences around you. Your riding needs to be as natural as walking. If it isn't up to this level, then just work your way up to it. It might take 6 months or more, especially if you haven't ridden for years. You might want to change your bike if you don't feel confident on it.

    Finally, get an after market can to make your bike as loud as possible. Not only will people be more likely to notice you, but it's also cooler.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by rich6 View Post
    So here I am, mid life crisis biker, just passed my test.

    Any advice welcome!
    You'll be a newbie for a year or so yet. Take it easy.

    If in doubt, don't.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!


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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Fred View Post
    Knowledge or otherwise of the road in question has a lot to do with the risk level. If you commute along the same route you will slowly learn where all the dangerous junctions are, where people tend to turn right, and where there usually are, and are not, queues (U-turns being far more likely where an unusual queue has formed). You don't need to actively "learn" these things, you just pick them up from experience, and you will speed up and get safer accordingly. When you end up filtering in a place you don't' know so well, you will slow down simply out of an anxious appreciation of your lack of familiarity.
    However, it's a double edged sword as you also tend to assume the same things will happen at the same places. "No one ever turns right at this roundabout" - well, not till someone does and usually without signalling.

    If I've been for a longish ride I always think the most dangerous part is when I'm approaching home. I know the road well and am aware of the tendency to think ahead to sitting down with a coffee rather than keeping the concentration levels up.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by iansoady View Post
    However, it's a double edged sword as you also tend to assume the same things will happen at the same places. "No one ever turns right at this roundabout" - well, not till someone does and usually without signalling.
    I concur. Only this morning, on the approach to a right hand turn with a dedicated filter lane on an A class road I had committed to overtaking the Honda CRV after they had almost passed the filter lane/turn off only to be surprised when they braked hard and turned right without indicating turning across my path. No other vehicles involved. This is the first time in all of the years i have been using this route that this has happened to me. I won't get caught out there again.
    Junction.jpg

    Expect anything and everything. Assume nothing.

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    Default Re: A question about filtering!

    Quote Originally Posted by iansoady View Post
    However, it's a double edged sword as you also tend to assume the same things will happen at the same places. "No one ever turns right at this roundabout" - well, not till someone does and usually without signalling.

    If I've been for a longish ride I always think the most dangerous part is when I'm approaching home. I know the road well and am aware of the tendency to think ahead to sitting down with a coffee rather than keeping the concentration levels up.

    It's a good point, however Rev Fred's main point is that road knowledge allows you to focus on precisely that, without being distracting by having to think about where the road is going as well.

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