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Thread: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

  1. #46
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Dazzle View Post
    OEM ECU's do effectively auto-tune though don't they? They have all kinds of sensors to tell how the engine is running and they change their settings accordingly. This takes 'kin ages to develop and calibrate though...(which is part of the reason some bikes fuel better than others, Honda have loads of money to spend on "'kin ages") .
    Yeah but, the ECU only uses the information sent from sensors to adapt the fuelling to the baseline map doesn't it, hence the need for the OEM map to be overwritten? Or at least that's my understanding of it? That's the trouble with systems like BMWs Motronic and things like booster plugs; Motronic is adaptive and will eventually adapt the richer fuelling to suite the BMW map and negate the effect of the booster plug. Unless you're referring to race ECUs as I know they are different but not quite sure how though?

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by Taipan View Post
    Yeah but, the ECU only uses the information sent from sensors to adapt the fuelling to the baseline map doesn't it, hence the need for the OEM map to be overwritten? Or at least that's my understanding of it? That's the trouble with systems like BMWs Motronic and things like booster plugs; Motronic is adaptive and will eventually adapt the richer fuelling to suite the BMW map and negate the effect of the booster plug. Unless you're referring to race ECUs as I know they are different but not quite sure how though?
    Have you considered a RexXer reflash. Their agents offer a postal service and the F800 is covered. I had my Ducati Monster done by Neil at Cornerspeed and it transformed the low speed running and allowed me to remove the lambdas and exhaust butterfly valve.

    https://www.rexxer.eu/e_rexxer.cfm


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  4. #48
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
    Have you considered a RexXer reflash. Their agents offer a postal service and the F800 is covered. I had my Ducati Monster done by Neil at Cornerspeed and it transformed the low speed running and allowed me to remove the lambdas and exhaust butterfly valve.

    https://www.rexxer.eu/e_rexxer.cfm

    I haven't no, but I will look into it. TBH after the way the HT saga has unfolded, i#m a tad nervous about anything like this and would rather take the bike somewhere when the time comes. That said, I note Hyside M/cycles in Romford are an agent and they aren't far from me, so may stop in and have chat. Thanks fro bringing it to my attention.

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  6. #49
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Comprehensively exposed as fraudsters!

    Breaking news. HT remote flashers are opening their boxes and checking the magic box communicates with the ECU'S . Using Peakcan and Busmaster the results are in. As we already showed you in earlier reports no communication exists. There were 19 remote flashers in total . We didn't know untill today some silent remotes were big named firms not advertising under the HT brand.
    Tree top team ��

    Paul Fletcher So what was the results?






    • Treetop tuning A standing down and request for a huge refund . This could potentially bankrupt every firm involved. The said person has apparently fled.



    • Paul Goodwin Paul Fletcher personally Id like to see corroborated evidence other than just your own. It is, however, very interesting





    • Treetop tuning Fled with a lot of cash. The account's shown are very poor. There are reports showing VAT receipts before the company was VAT registered. But with 19 remote flashers paying around 180 pounds sterling a bike plus the in house 45 minute slots. Plus the monthly bookings from the GS forum and Midland bikers. Well Its well over 300k per year



    • Treetop tuning Tree top provides sniffing interfaces to any remote flashers of HT boxes . We provide FOC or
      we give you the links to purchase your own sniffing interface to test your magic boxes . Because indeed. They are magic boxes.



    • Treetop tuning Let us guess. Some idiot will comment and try to tell us the communication between the PC and ECU is also invisable. Just like the maps . Well tree top says fuck off in advance



    • Matt Wetherill Who's fled?



    • Steve Sponge Gone down under? They don't seem to be doubting it yet

    Last edited by Taipan; 06-07-19 at 07:44.

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    The thing I find most disturbing about all this is that there are hundreds of gs owners all running about not being able to tell how their bike is running. The same people who tell you it's one of ze greatest motorcycles ever made.
    Bit like the old run your vehicle on super plus petrol and you'll get an extra 30 miles to a tank schmooze.

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  9. #51
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by sadlonelygit View Post
    The thing I find most disturbing about all this is that there are hundreds of gs owners all running about not being able to tell how their bike is running. The same people who tell you it's one of ze greatest motorcycles ever made.
    Bit like the old run your vehicle on super plus petrol and you'll get an extra 30 miles to a tank schmooze.
    One of the replies on treetops page is that he fits a resistor to airbox temp sensor! Not sure I believe that, unless he sneaks it inline somewhere, but surely someone would have seen it by now. I guess the peopel that have had their bikes remapped on the dyno have got what they paid for, but if he's told them his software will cover any inlet and exhaust changes then its a miracle there haven't been more valve burn outs. Looks like more people are coming out of the woodwork now and saying dyno runs ahev revealed their bikes run dangerously lean. Geoff @ HT says he doesn't include AF graphs because his software doesn't kick in unless both wheels are turning!

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    Should Get Out More couchcommando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by sadlonelygit View Post
    The thing I find most disturbing about all this is that there are hundreds of gs owners all running about not being able to tell how their bike is running. The same people who tell you it's one of ze greatest motorcycles ever made.
    Bit like the old run your vehicle on super plus petrol and you'll get an extra 30 miles to a tank schmooze.
    Thats actually quite easy to believe tbh if you imagine them saying how good the remap is in a nasally voice after they’ve lifted their flip up helmet up.....

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  12. #53
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Well interestingly, i rode Trickys bike this weekend in back to back sessions with my 790, he also did the same.

    His has been to Hilltop, mine has not....

    To our 'seat of the pants' dyno, neither of us could notice any difference at all....

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    Well interestingly, i rode Trickys bike this weekend in back to back sessions with my 790, he also did the same.

    His has been to Hilltop, mine has not....

    To our 'seat of the pants' dyno, neither of us could notice any difference at all....


    Sold.

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    I think that means I won't be taking the 66 Le to them for a re-map.

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    It's a weird one. Some bits that don't really make sense for me:

    BMW S1000XR - Made the bike a lot smoother and usable even though I didn't really go there for that. It's hard to have the placebo over something you didn't think about or plan for?
    KTM 790 - Despite knowing I was a previous happy customer, told me to not to bother remapping it.

    I wonder if some of the more modern kit is harder for him to work with. So he is just 'cashing in' as he can't hack the newer kit. His I.T knowledge was fine, I can smell B.S a mile away on that front. I had some chats with him about his 'code' and how he does remote tunes without just giving it all away. In theory if he did his job correctly, the remote boxes should be little more than a dumb terminal, and fairly worthless if you reverse engineer them.

    (That Hex dump doesn't mean a great deal based on what he told me. A before/after should be the same)

    I'm not saying he is fully legit, but I'm not convinced it's 100% snake oil either.

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  18. #57
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    I think he must remap bikes as he puts them on a dyno, and he probably saves the maps as a generic map for each make and model that he's dynoed and that's what I assumed you got when you send your ECU in, which is fair enough if you CBA to go there and get it done. So I expect load of people that have had their bikes set up on his dyno are more than happy, and do have genuine improvements, but the ones that have just had his magic software installed with no dyno time may be the ones being duped!?

    He certainly must do something to some bikes as I'd certainly know if my bike had been remapped or not as the hole in the power delivery at c5k is so obvious, as it is for a lot of bikes. But then I look back at a conversation I once had with Stan Stephens, where he was telling me about when he ran dyno days and people brought their rejetted at home bikes in, where they claimed to have massively improved the top end and it had a power hike up there now. Stan said it was nearly always just the bike climbing out of the bloody great hole they'd dialled into the midrange! So we can never discount human error or seat of the pants dyno results!

    His magic adjusting software does seem to be BS? There's a whole network of tuners out there calling him out over it, saying it cant be done and if he can write software that can make a narrow band sensor work as a wideband then he'd have made a lot more money selling that to everyone than he ever would doing what he does. Also lots of claims saying you cant hide code yet no one can see it. You cant use a code that alters things and not see it on a dyno in real time, but no one can see that either and him saying its because the front wheel isn't turning is BS as you can disable things like speed sensors etc blah, but still no one can see it. The reasons go on and on...

    The main thing is its highly regarded tuners and software guys that are calling him out on it and still he doesn't respond to them. He's been offered to just show it working and everyone will publicly apologise, but no, he wont. From what i can gather, whilst many have been calling his magic software bollocks for a few years, its the remote tuning boxes that have been his real undoing as they've been proven not to work by an increasing number of people. So his creation of a network of dealers selling HT software may end up very costly for him and have some repercussions for his dealers. Not a good situation for all involved!

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  20. #58
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by joe19 View Post
    It's a weird one. Some bits that don't really make sense for me:

    BMW S1000XR - Made the bike a lot smoother and usable even though I didn't really go there for that. It's hard to have the placebo over something you didn't think about or plan for?
    KTM 790 - Despite knowing I was a previous happy customer, told me to not to bother remapping it.

    I wonder if some of the more modern kit is harder for him to work with. So he is just 'cashing in' as he can't hack the newer kit. His I.T knowledge was fine, I can smell B.S a mile away on that front. I had some chats with him about his 'code' and how he does remote tunes without just giving it all away. In theory if he did his job correctly, the remote boxes should be little more than a dumb terminal, and fairly worthless if you reverse engineer them.

    (That Hex dump doesn't mean a great deal based on what he told me. A before/after should be the same)

    I'm not saying he is fully legit, but I'm not convinced it's 100% snake oil either.
    I'm convinced he's not fully legit, I never got a formal invoice/receipt saying what had been done, just the PDQ receipt, and from my (admittedly limited) experience of him he is definitely not an intellectual but he obviously has an eye for an opportunity.
    Your experience with them with XR is an interesting one, and sounds similar to mine with the 790- your HT dyno print-out sticks in my mind as the "before " hp on that was definitely shown artificially low- my HT 790 dyno graph wasn't like that, showing the same ultimate HP, but it did show massive mid-range gains which simply weren't there.

    As for what he told you when you approached him about your 790, well, that's not what he said to me so he's definitely changed his tune ( ) - the bit in quotes is word for word what I got back in response to my initial inquiry- I'd already had a chat with my local bunch that I used for the 390 and numerous other bikes before , and also BSD before this, and both put their hands up to having no experience with the 790 and said at that point in time they weren't sure they couldn't do anything for me- I asked HT the specific question as to whether they had any experience with the 790, and if so, whether it worth doing, and this is what I got back, so I booked

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltop Motorcycles
    Hi Richard, thank you for your enquiry. Yes we can remap your KTM duke 790 and the on-off throttle transition and overall throttle smoothness will improved along with performance gains low down and through the midrange mostly on that engine configuration. Our remap price is 360 with before and after dyno runs and printout, and that will give you both optimised fueling and ignition timing, along with the map being invisible to your local KTM dealer with no possibility with being overwritten/removed during service updates.
    I too have a background in IT, and Electronics specifically- came up through the days of TTL and the first Microprocessors, Electronics was what I studied and when I graduated went to work for the Co that sponsored me through college, writing test programs (often in assembler) and de-bugging first off designs for command and control systems, so although I won't profess to be any form of expert in current auto-electronics , I have a reasonable understanding of basic principles and can generally figure out how most things work / fix them , and Geoff just didn't convince me at all .

    I love knowing how things work and was genuinely interested in his approach but didn't get what I considered a straight answer to any of my questions,.
    TBH that doesn't really matter to me if they delivered what they purported to , but they didn't really- no way the dyno print out I got was a true reflection of before and after.
    Having said that, when I left HT , although there is absolutely no way my bike had between 20 and 30lb/ft of torque more all the way from 2k to 5.5k than when it went in, response in Sport and Track modes on my 790 was definitely smoother. Whether it still is, I'm not so sure, as even though I run it in Track mode all the time (so I can have anti-wheelie disabled), I never take it out of " Street" throttle response mode anymore, (even on track) as its just more rideable and nicer that way, which has brought me to the conclusion that I've probably just had an ECU reset.

    As a comparison / calibration of my arse dyno, my little 390 , even though it only showed a gain of +3 hp and about the same lb/ft of torque, was transformed with the Indian version of the Power Commander and half a days dyno time fiddling with fuel and ignition maps , gave it the same feeling bottom end/ mid-range as my 525EXC just with those small amounts

    Anyway, I think the 790 motor is a cracker out of the box and am happy with the performance of mine in Street throttle mode, but if there is more to be had , (and there almost always is theses days if you're not hung up on maintaining complete compliance with emissions and noise regs) I'd absolutely like it, which is why I took it to HT- I have no doubt I've been scammed, but am not losing any sleep over it, albeit I'm watching it with mild interest.

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  22. #59
    Should Get Out More Taipan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    A guy appears to have found out there is no tune or turning software on his bike and contacted Hilltop, who now claim the tune remains their intellectual property! This whole thing really is a bizarre situation!

    https://www.facebook.com/Treetoptuni...type=3&theater

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    Default Re: Hilltop Motorcycle tuning

    Anyone heard anything else on this saga?

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