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Thread: Bike first aid

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    Default Bike first aid


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    Not sure whether this is included in the 'Biker Down' type training, but given that bike crashes can involve quite traumatic injuries, this might be a good addition to small first aid provision:

    https://www.citizenaid.org/tkey

    Tourni-Key is a low-cost device to help stop limb bleeding
    Tourniquets stop life-threatening limb bleeding. Tourniquets that are used by civilian medical professionals and the military are generally expensive and require formal training. citizenAID's clinical team has developed a simple intuitive device that can be used by anyone to save a life. Tourni-Key is an effective and affordable solution.

    citizenAID and tourniquets
    Tourni-Key can be used with a triangular bandage if you have one available otherwise it is designed to transform items of everyday clothing such as a tie or cotton/silk scarf into an improvised tourniquet. It is ok to improvise if you need to save a life.

    A tourniquet is recommended in two circumstances.
    1. When a casualty has an amputated or mangled limb
    2. Where a casualty has severe bleeding [that is not controlled by packing the wound and firm pressure]

    Training to use tourniquet - safety first
    citizenAID recommends that you never train on each other - always use a simulated limb. You can improvise a training limb with a rolled magazine insider roll towel inside a trouser leg was jumper sleeve. When you follow the rules that a tourniquet is only apply for life-threatening bleeding [that cannot be controlled by other means ] then you can only ever do good

    https://www.citizenaid.org/shop
    https://www.citizenaid.org/learnthesystem

    [Yes, I know that the use of tourniquets was frowned for many years due to the potential for damage due to loss of circulation in a limb, but this is for major trauma with severe blood loss where the entire casualty would die soon anyway.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    "Yes, I know that the use of tourniquets was frowned for many years due to the potential for damage due to loss of circulation in a limb, but this is for major trauma with severe blood loss where the entire casualty would die soon anyway"

    I'd rather loose the use of a limb than bleed to death, tourniquets are okay if used properly, release the pressure on the tourniquet to allow blood into the damaged area every few minutes, then reapply pressure (that's what I was taught, but it's probably changed since the 1980s)

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Here's one that you probably won't see in the manuals:

    https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems...70xEFuXZvylg8T

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian_Boolean View Post
    "Yes, I know that the use of tourniquets was frowned for many years due to the potential for damage due to loss of circulation in a limb, but this is for major trauma with severe blood loss where the entire casualty would die soon anyway"

    I'd rather loose the use of a limb than bleed to death, tourniquets are okay if used properly, release the pressure on the tourniquet to allow blood into the damaged area every few minutes, then reapply pressure (that's what I was taught, but it's probably changed since the 1980s)
    Because of some heavy engineering work done on-site, we've had basic trauma training, including tornequet, 'israeli' bandage, and wallpaper paste Celox rapid clotting powder.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    I'll pass that on to the Biker Down team... just delivered my Science Of Being Seen (SOBS) presentation on Biker Down in Rochester tonight, as it happens.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian_Boolean View Post
    "Yes, I know that the use of tourniquets was frowned for many years due to the potential for damage due to loss of circulation in a limb, but this is for major trauma with severe blood loss where the entire casualty would die soon anyway"

    I'd rather loose the use of a limb than bleed to death, tourniquets are okay if used properly, release the pressure on the tourniquet to allow blood into the damaged area every few minutes, then reapply pressure (that's what I was taught, but it's probably changed since the 1980s)
    You're right, it's changed

    Experience dealing with IEDs (I usually say IUDs which confused people) has changed the advice to 'leave it on, and write the time it was applied on the casualty's forehead.

    Get yerself along to a Biker Down coure - they're all over the country now and completely free. If you make it to Rochester, you'll get to hear me too Not sure if that is a selling point or a reason to stay away!

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    That tourniquet looks crap tbh.
    Far too complicated to put it on and evidence shows that a wider tourniquet is better at stemming the flow.

    For twice the price (so still not mega expensive) you can get a Combat Application Tourniquet or similar:
    https://evaq8.co.uk/combat-applicati...CABEgJOEfD_BwE

    These are extremely simple to put on (even single handed by the casualty themselves), proven effective by the military, and carried by most UK ambulance services.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    That actually looks quite useful.

    I happen to be part of a public involvement panel dealing with clinical trials (particularly) in the trauma field. At one of our recent meetings, a consultant trauma surgeon came in with some bleed-suppression kits consisting of tourniquet, various pads etc. The collective view (supported by the consultant) was that they were a waste of time. It took ages to open the packaging; the instructions were printed so small they were barely readable; the tourniquets were so difficult to operate that more than half of those present couldn't work them. They were originally designed for the military and hence came in dark colours so that snipers couldn't see them. Of course neither could the people trying to use them. In a combat environment they'd be used by highly trained people - not the general public. In fact one component was like the one shown by Adam.

    We were trying to use them in a nice warm dry well lit environment. The thought of trying to use them in the dark, by the roadside when the rain is pouring down doesn't bear thinking about.

    The apparent intention was to distribute these to bars, pubs etc to deal with stabbings, and I understand that a local charity has coughed up 200K or so to do this.

    Our collective two pennorth was that it would be far better to give very basic training in how to stop bleeding - grab the nearest bit of softish material - inner glove, jumper etc - and apply firm (and it does need to be firm) pressure to the wound site, and that a tourniquet can be easily improvised from anything handy - admittedly these things are easier to come by in a bar than by the roadside. People complain about possible infection - yes of course but the imperative is to stop the blood gushing out. Infections can be dealt with later.

    I'll pass on details of this device to my trauma chums.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    You're right, it's changed

    Experience dealing with IEDs (I usually say IUDs which confused people) has changed the advice to 'leave it on, and write the time it was applied on the casualty's forehead.
    Tourniquets have been routinely used in surgery for 4+ hours with little or no ill effect. Admittedly the patients have a much lower metabolic demand due to being anaesthetised, but the hour or so a tourniquet will be in place on a traumatic injury with catastrophic bleed really isn't an issue. It MUST be a catastrophic bleed though, and direct pressure and limb elevations should be the first line method of attempting to stem the flow of all bleeds prior to the use of celox and tourniquets.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by iansoady View Post
    In a combat environment they'd be used by highly trained people - not the general public.
    Would they bollocks. They'd be used by the infantry.
    They really are extremely simple to apply. Your panel must be full of fuckwits.
    Sure, they need to be played about with prior to the time you need to apply them, reading instructions as you apply is never a good idea, but they take very little practice to become proficient on, hence the infantry can apply them perfectly well.
    They also do hi vis ones for civvies.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfEls2LC8c

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    But the whole point was that they were supposed to be used by the general public. Our panel may well have its share of fuckwits - I couldn't possibly comment. But we were, as I say, in a warm dry room and sober, not by the side of the road in the dark and rain with drunks screaming around us.

    You obviously have a higher opinion of the public than I do.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by iansoady View Post
    But the whole point was that they were supposed to be used by the general public. Our panel may well have its share of fuckwits - I couldn't possibly comment. But we were, as I say, in a warm dry room and sober, not by the side of the road in the dark and rain with drunks screaming around us.

    You obviously have a higher opinion of the public than I do.
    I've been taught how to shove tubes up nostrils and down throats to aid breathing. Taught in that warm dry room, on a compliant, static, dummy head.

    Learnt it well enough to do in the dark cold rain?

    Well, we're not issued with the tubes anyway. Whew!

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    For twice the price (so still not mega expensive) you can get a Combat Application Tourniquet or similar:
    https://evaq8.co.uk/combat-applicati...CABEgJOEfD_BwE

    These are extremely simple to put on (even single handed by the casualty themselves), proven effective by the military, and carried by most UK ambulance services.
    That looks like the one we have in our trauma kit.

    It did amuse me that the Citizen Aid one has a bit of card to prevent skin pinching ... Now, if you could just add something to stop hangnails?

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    @Iansoady: I'm a bit "surprised" that a charity has given 200k for tourniquets to help treat pub stabbings? They're only useful for limb injuries, and I'd bet 99% of stabbings are to the trunk, where pressure is the only thing that may help. Maybe in the case of stab to the neck? Charities sometimes need to think a bit.

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    Default Re: Bike first aid

    They're "complete" kits: https://www.prometheusmedical.co.uk/...ed-control-kit. Not sure if it was this exact version we looked at but very similar.

    96 would pay for a lot of training in my view and would be far more use. If I was bleeding out in the street I'd rather have someone with some idea stuff a bar towel in the wound than people faffing around trying to open and understand that thing.

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