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Thread: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

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    Default Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off


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    Good afternoon everyone,

    I have a small but nagging issue with my electronic ignition (Moto Guzzi 1000 SP).

    I have bought, and had installed from a guy (I don't want to go back to him: he is nice, but too far away, too slow, and I have less confidence in him now) a Silent Hektik electronic ignition for my 1985 Moto Guzzi 1000 SP in 2017.

    I would be extremely satisfied with everything. However, there is a problem that is slowly becoming a nuisance and, perhaps, a hazard.

    The motorbike very, *very* occasionally switches off. This is extremely seldom with the lights off (I think it has happened perhaps three times in several thousand miles), but I have noticed that it actually also always happens in the very first minutes (from 1 to 4 minutes) *after I switch on the lights*, *every single time*.

    I have written to Silent Hektik in Germany; they looked at a picture of the installation and told me that the installation was not executed correctly.

    They basically say the following:

    1) coils wrongly screwed together
    2) distance of box from coil must be minimum 10cm
    3) distance of sensor cable from coil also minimum 10cm

    I have two questions:

    1) Do you think the problem is really due to the way the components are mounted, or is this simply a case of Silent Hektik being a bit too... German? Again, with lights off I can ride hundred of miles at a time, no issue whatsoever, bike goes like a dream. I would think, in my ignorance, that if the installation were really problematic I would have problems of a completely different order?

    2) Do you think the light cables of the bike (which are old) might play a role? All the ignition/related cables of the bike were redone new with the ignition, but the lights/indicator/ignition key section is the old one and might be a tad or more than a tad shot. Again, I am sure that **the bike switches off 100% of the time shortly after I switch the lights on**. After the bike switches off *once*, I start it again and it rides forever with the lights on and with no issue, which again lets me think that the problem might not be the electronic ignition installation?

    I am trying to have some more info here and perhaps be pointed in the right direction (lights or electronics, or both) before I look for a local specialist, which hasn't proven easy, either.

    Can you help?

    Thanks

    O

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Sounds like that with the lights on you haven't got enough electrical power to run the ignition, ie; voltage is dropping.
    Try fitting a new battery first, but you will probably need to check the charging circuit.
    The references to the coils are to prevent interference from the coils effecting the ignition, you want to position the ignition box as far away from the engine and coils as you can, somewhere cool and vibration free - that'll be a challenge on a Guzzi.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Do you still have your points setup? If so, switch back for a few hundred miles, so if the problem goes away it might give you a few more clues.

    The ignition problem I had on my LM3 with Dyna electronic ignition eventually turned out to be wear on the advance/retard springs. That won't be it for you, obviously, as the SH works off the alternator, but switching back to points eventually helped me reach the solution.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugwash View Post
    Do you still have your points setup? If so, switch back for a few hundred miles, so if the problem goes away it might give you a few more clues.

    The ignition problem I had on my LM3 with Dyna electronic ignition eventually turned out to be wear on the advance/retard springs. That won't be it for you, obviously, as the SH works off the alternator, but switching back to points eventually helped me reach the solution.
    I would take the company at their word, they made the thing after all. It could easily be a voltage problem, but also an interference one....try new battery first, but I would want to get a proper installation to eliminate that as a problem. While ever it is as is, the company will keep blaming the installation.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Thanks you all,
    a new Yuasa battery has been installed replacing the old Motobatt one. Unfortunately, the problem still persists.

    Some questions if I may:

    1) "Sounds like that with the lights on you haven't got enough electrical power to run the ignition, ie; voltage is dropping."
    I can see the voltage dropping from the voltmetre, but this was always the case, on the SP II I have in Germany and on this bike before I installed the electronic ignition. I also am at a loss to understand why, if this is the case, the bike works like a mule with the lights on, *after the engine has shut down once*? It's uncanny. Actually, now when I want to switch on the light, I look for a quiet residential road, switch the lights on, wait for the engine to shut down (a couple of minutes), start the engine again and off I go for a long as I want without a care in the world...

    2) "switch back for a few hundred miles",
    I am pretty sure that I can theoretically do it as I was told by the man who did the installation that everything has been left in place and it can be switched in place in case of emergency. However, no idea how to do it!
    Still, *I am positive that the problem is linked with the electronic ignition*, as it presented itself for the first time on the day I rode the bike back after the installation (it was after several hours and perhaps 150 miles, and at the time I thought it was my mistake with the gears and I had left the engine "die". Only with the time I understood that it kept happening, even if very sporadically. It was only later still that I could make the connection to me actually switching on the lights!).

    3) Important point: I chose Silent Hektik for my bike because of their extremely high reputation for installations on old Guzzis like mine in Germany, where I lived in the past (Silent Hektik is a German company). Basically, in Germany they are (or were) the "go to" company for Guzzi electronic ignition. The version I have installed is specifically indicated as the appropriate one for my 1000 SP.

    Thanks all, please keep your reflections coming!



    3) If it is an issue of "with the lights on you haven't got enough electrical power to run the ignition", is there any way to remedy this? Mind, I use elephants as batteries (the one I have now is also good enough for big Harley Davidsons and for my R1200RT). Also, the engine goes off whilst the engine is running. I would have thought when the engine is running the battery isn't used, actually it is being recharged?

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    There are only two things that can cause an engine to stop after it's running, lack of spark or lack of fuel, turning the lights on isn't going to cause fuel to stop flowing, therefore your problem has to be a lack of spark caused by swithching the lights on, how, I don't know, but you could check things likevyhe engine earth and the lights wiring, you're going to have to gradually eliminate things until you find the cause.

    Sent from my SM-T560 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Agree with Julian. It looks as though the generator just isn't keeping up with the load. Do you perhaps have high power headlamp bulbs etc?

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Quote Originally Posted by a_morti View Post
    Any chance it corresponds with the radiator fan starting?
    It doesn't have a radiator, it's air cooled.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Wire it up properly and see if the problem goes away due to not getting interference/etc anymore, if not start checking electriks?

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Hi all again,

    bike bought used (by many) but headlamps is very bad so it looks like it's the original (not my first Guzzi so I recognise them..). As was said, air-cooled so no issue from that side.

    Yesterday another ride on the bike, with several experiments. Following, several answers to test the patience of the most saintly guy...

    As I accelerate, the voltmeter also moves indicating more charge. It also goes up as I lift the hand from the throttle. It behaves exactly as it always did, and as the voltmeter of my Guzzi SP II did. The battery is most certainly being recharged whilst riding (I know this because the former battery, a Motobatt, discharged during the week but kicked like a mule after 30 minutes on the bike during the weekend). Am I right in concluding that the generator is free of guilt?

    I tried again yesterday and got the following results: I started engine with lights on, wanting to see if that *alone* switched everything off after a short while. I left the bike a couple of minutes to run on idle. No issue. Then I started to ride and after 200 m the engine went off. Therefore, it seems to me that it is not the switching of the lights in itself that causes the issue. *Something goes "tilt", like an old pinball machine*, when there is too much or too little voltage. Again, starting the engine again with lights on did not cause any issue after the first "tilt". This is what baffles me the most. It's a "one-off complaint", with no issues afterwards.

    I also made several tests with switching the lights on (whilst riding) and then off again within 10-20 seconds. Engine does not die. But if I keep the lights on a minute or more, it dies (once!).

    Questions:

    1) At this point my main suspect is the voltage regulator?

    2) I don't know anything of this stuff, but there it goes: a mechanic once told me that Guzzis have "old type" generators. They do not start charging the battery immediately, but only after a while. This is why, when you start a Guzzi and start to ride, the red light stays on for a little while, and only goes off after a short while, as the thing "starts working" properly. Can this play a role in the issue?

    3) What is next: I will start a selective check of the components involved (cables of the lights, ignition switch, generator, voltage regulator). However, the bike being old, I have nothing against having a new generator and voltage regulator installed and be done with it. The bike clearly suffered from humid conditions in former lives, so the more new electric components the better (all cables for ignition are new already).

    4) I have the issue that I can only visit a mechanic on a Saturday, and have mobility issues (my friends live all away from me, in London, and no cars). In your experience, would a mechanic be able to remake the electric and install the new regulator in one day? Basically, if I can get in on a Saturday morning and get out on the same day with the problem solved I don't mind having everything new. If I have to have the pain of getting a taxi home and another taxi to collect the bike I will seek alternative solutions.

    5) What's the deal with these generators and regulators? Do I have to buy the specific one for my old bike, which might be difficult to find or otherwise mediocre, or can I have an "improved" version of different and better technical specifications, so that I am certain that the problem does not present itself again?

    Thanks all!

    O

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    It isn't your genny...it will be interference in the trigger cable or the box.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    I can't remember but have you asked on the Guzzi riders' forum http://www.guzziriders.org/forums.html? Lots of very knowledgeable people there......

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    I have a Le Mans and will eventually get round to fitting SH ignition. Couple of points.
    The generator light should go off pretty much straight away at 1000rev I would suggest adding extra earths, I have added an additional one from the engine/battery mount to the earth on the frame, one each for each clip-on back the frame earth (otherwise the switches are trying to earth through the grease of the headstock), rearlight and indicators to the frame and the the alternator to the engine case.

    Motobatt Battery. Whilst I have one on my Aprilia I don't believe old Guzzis output enough to charge a Motobatt I think they need about 14.3v to start charging whilst a old Guzzi puts out about 14.1v at best. I run an lead acid battery as used in ride on lawn mower.

    I'd stick some more earths on as a cheap test.

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Just putting this out there for all you SH fans . (I have no dog in this fight, just thought it was an interesting take on the worst that can happen with wasted spark systems)

    http://forum.trikingsportscars.co.uk...gnition-system

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Elecronic Ignition - Occasional/Lights related Switching Off

    Hi ian,
    just posted over there, too...

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