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Thread: Lifesavers ???

  1. #16
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???


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    To emphasise the timing point, 00:44 here:

    https://youtu.be/jv5iZL3Byn4

    The rider is still looking over his shoulder as the bike is pointed towards the exit.

    As someone explained: the only benefit of a late lifesaver is that you might see the registration number of the car that's going to hit you, saves time on the form filling.

    In the roundabout scenario in the video, if he'd looked and there was something there, he would need time to think then react, and the reaction would have to be to continue circling around the island. How many riders, having planned to leave at the next exit, would actually be able to achieve continuing around? I'd guess very few could.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Very much so. When I first came across lifesavers or shoulder checks, I always left it far too late and was committed by the time I saw it was a no-go, leading to some fairly lurid swerves. To tell the truth, if you keep your eyes on your mirrors, it's fairly seldom you're surprised but the extra few seconds makes all the difference.

    When I was first learning to drive a car, my dad (a police class 1 driver) used to occasionally cover the interior mirror and ask me what was behind. He got very cross when I didn't know. Of course cars in those days rarely had exterior mirrors so I couldn't cheat.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerJo View Post
    When I took my test it was before any manoeuvre. ��
    And that's why we need to THINK about whether one is needed or not. What kind of a manoeuvre? Moving around a parked car? Turning left? Changing position to see into a blind entrance?

    The only two must-do shoulder checks on test are the lifesavers before:

    turning right major to minor
    exiting from a roundabout after turning right

    But there are a host of other places where they make a lot of sense.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    Great replies so far and she's impressed
    is there a test fail for any non lifesaver?
    There are two instant fails on the UK test - does the lack of a check:

    1) put you at immediate risk?
    2) cause someone else to change speed and direction?

    That'll either be a serious (potentially hazardous) or dangerous (genuine and immediate risk) fault and both are test fails.

    And there is the 'repetitive fault' issue. If you miss a lifesaver turning right, and there's no-one there that you needed to see then you'd usually be marked with a minor 'driving fault' error. But if you KEEP missing them, eventually they're marked as a serious error.

    You can do too many checks... but it's important to understand that you need to be sure that if you're moving into a new position on the road, it's clear and will stay that way. I was training someone one day, who'd been out with another school in the same area, and we were doing a right turn at lights where there was a central island with barrier along it (to stop people crossing the road). He turned right with no lifesaver. "Don't forget your lifesaver" said I.

    When we stopped, he challenged me. "The other instructor said there's no need for a lifesaver there because of the barrier".

    No need? Some months earlier, I'd had a test fail on the same spot because the trainee didn't bother with mirrors or lifesaver, and and nearly took out a cyclist going the wrong side of the barrier (cos the lights the other way were red). Arguments about what people should and shouldn't do are irrelevant. As Horse says, the important question is "what are we going to do about it?" and we'll only know that if we looked.

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    Annoying The Idiots Yorick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    And that's why we need to THINK about whether one is needed or not. What kind of a manoeuvre? Moving around a parked car? Turning left? Changing position to see into a blind entrance?

    The only two must-do shoulder checks on test are the lifesavers before:

    turning right major to minor
    exiting from a roundabout after turning right

    But there are a host of other places where they make a lot of sense.
    I'd have thought setting off after stopping at side of road would be a deffo ?

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by iansoady View Post
    Very much so. When I first came across lifesavers or shoulder checks, I always left it far too late and was committed by the time I saw it was a no-go, leading to some fairly lurid swerves. To tell the truth, if you keep your eyes on your mirrors, it's fairly seldom you're surprised but the extra few seconds makes all the difference.

    When I was first learning to drive a car, my dad (a police class 1 driver) used to occasionally cover the interior mirror and ask me what was behind. He got very cross when I didn't know. Of course cars in those days rarely had exterior mirrors so I couldn't cheat.
    On a lesson in my late teens, I had the instructor do the same thing. I answered with make and model of the car. Even Reg plate and engine mods. He was amazed till I said it was a mate of mine behind

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Also, timing: look over your shoulder* when you're not going to run into something ahead, or when you have imminent danger to your left . . .

    * With full face lids, for 'lifesavers' it's often easier to look sideways & 'down'.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
    I'd have thought setting off after stopping at side of road would be a deffo ?
    I forgot that one

    But it's more of a look right behind rather than a 'blind spot' check as such.

    Don't forget to check mirrors too - one of the examiners had a habit of getting the trainees to pull up on a left hand bend (probably because it was the only place where there was room to stop rather than any malicious intent) and of course, they'd look over the right shoulder and not see anything... because the car coming up behind was behind their left shoulder due to the curve in the road.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    You should always perform a life saver. You just never know what's coming.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    I forgot that one

    But it's more of a look right behind rather than a 'blind spot' check as such.

    Don't forget to check mirrors too - one of the examiners had a habit of getting the trainees to pull up on a left hand bend (probably because it was the only place where there was room to stop rather than any malicious intent) and of course, they'd look over the right shoulder and not see anything... because the car coming up behind was behind their left shoulder due to the curve in the road.
    No matter where the trainee is stopped before moving off from the side of the kerb where i am we teach all 4 points left to right ....Left Shoulder, Left Mirror, Right Mirror, Right Shoulder

    TBH Lifesavers were alien to me as never taught it but i now ride using it all the time so i know when the trainees should be doing it properly ..... also saved me becoming a hood ornament once when undertaken by a loon in a Beemer doing 85 in a 50 as i was moving from overtaking lane to inside lane
    Last edited by Bigyin; 01-10-19 at 21:56.

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    Default Re: Lifesavers ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    To emphasise the timing point, 00:44 here:

    https://youtu.be/jv5iZL3Byn4

    The rider is still looking over his shoulder as the bike is pointed towards the exit.

    As someone explained: the only benefit of a late lifesaver is that you might see the registration number of the car that's going to hit you, saves time on the form filling.

    In the roundabout scenario in the video, if he'd looked and there was something there, he would need time to think then react, and the reaction would have to be to continue circling around the island. How many riders, having planned to leave at the next exit, would actually be able to achieve continuing around? I'd guess very few could.
    Did a road ride today with a student same age as me who had been riding off road for 30 years and some previous 125 racing experience 30 years ago...... never ridden a bike on the road before ....ever.

    Lifesavers were completely alien to him and despite getting them right on the pad after quite a few repetitions when we got on the road despite radio instruction we didnt get them and any we did get were waaay too late as per the video you linked ....... i ended up riding up close in his blind spot on a couple of roundabouts and sharp call of "Lifesaver right " as he should have looked on a left exit on radio he would suddenly look and realise i was a foot off his shoulder .... quick radio chat to explain and we had them spot on from then on and on debrief at the end of the ride his comment was..... " i need to practise them in my car .... a lot"

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