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Thread: Is democracy dead?

  1. #106
    Expecting rain saga_lout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?


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    Quote Originally Posted by DefTrap View Post
    So your interpretation is?

    I'm confused. I get you want your brexit. But how can a theoretical opposite decision from the same electorate be anything other than democratic?

    I'll say it again, today's problems are all due to the thin parliamentary majority and the rift within the governing party. Nothing to do with democracy, just the mechanics.
    All I'm saying is that if you can do "So what you're saying is..." I can also do "So what you're saying is...".

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    Should Get Out More irie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by DefTrap View Post
    So your interpretation is?

    I'm confused. I get you want your brexit. But how can a theoretical opposite decision from the same electorate be anything other than democratic?

    I'll say it again, today's problems are all due to the thin parliamentary majority and the rift within the governing party. Nothing to do with democracy, just the mechanics.
    It is undemocratic because referendums short circuit our representative democracy. Referendums deliver an explicit direct instruction to Parliament over the heads of the democratically elected representatives (MPs). You might argue that the referendum was advisory, but Parliament obviously believed otherwise when it voted by over 4 to 1 to pass the referendum result into law.

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  4. #108
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by DefTrap View Post
    I'll say it again, today's problems are all due to the thin parliamentary majority and the rift within the governing party. Nothing to do with democracy, just the mechanics.
    Democracy, from demos (common people) and kratos (rule).
    So, if the common people rule, their decision to leave the EU, that was supposed to be triggered the 'next day' and take 2 years to leave, would have been delivered.

    As it is the non-common people (the elites) have conspired to thwart democracy and stop the decision of the common people being carried out.
    It is, pretty much by definition, anti-democratic.

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  6. #109
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    I fancy I might do civil disobedience though. Most of us oldies can drive at 10mph, if we all did it together on the M1 it might cause a stir. ?
    The way no deal preparations are going, you'll be doing about 9mph more than anything within a 30 mile radius of a port

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    Should Get Out More Screwdriver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    We've already Seen umpteen various interpretations of what Brexit means - that's why we're in the disastrous limbo that we are now.
    Brexit means leave the EU either with a negotiated withdrawal or after two years if the negotiation is unresolved, we leave with with no-deal. Thats what we voted for, thats what Cameron promised. The other umpteen versions are designed by remainers to thwart the process.

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  9. #111
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Jesus Christ. If the same electorate in a subsequent election make a clear choice - how can that not be democratic?
    Is voting in a referendum a fundamental part of our democratic process?

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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Is voting in a referendum a fundamental part of our democratic process?
    Sometimes, apparently.

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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    Sometimes, apparently.
    When is it not?

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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    When is it not?
    When they don’t have a referendum.

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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Is voting in a referendum a fundamental part of our democratic process?
    It is. However our process also allows us to change what is/will/might happen at any time doesn't it?

    I don't think that is gonna happen, but it's a bit silly to assume that any vote in a modern democracy is a fixed single decision that will never change.

    Despite what any campaigns might have said

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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    When they don’t have a referendum.
    Ah. Trying to be clever.


    ...and failing miserably.

  15. #117
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Is voting in a referendum a fundamental part of our democratic process?
    Only when the answer is the right answer.

  16. #118
    Should Get Out More irie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Dazzle View Post
    It is. However our process also allows us to change what is/will/might happen at any time doesn't it?

    I don't think that is gonna happen, but it's a bit silly to assume that any vote in a modern democracy is a fixed single decision that will never change.

    Despite what any campaigns might have said
    What has to happen is that a referendum decision has to first be put into effect. Like the 1975 refetendum was.

    See where this is going?

  17. #119
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Ah. Trying to be clever.


    ...and failing miserably.
    Glad to see you can still laugh at yourself. It’s a sad man that can’t.

  18. #120
    Should Get Out More Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is democracy dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    Brexit means leave the EU either with a negotiated withdrawal or after two years if the negotiation is unresolved, we leave with with no-deal. Thats what we voted for, thats what Cameron promised. The other umpteen versions are designed by remainers to thwart the process.
    Perhaps they were. But didn't both main parties have 'deal' in their manifestos? If so, that's what the population voted for after the referendum.

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