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Thread: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?


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    Quote Originally Posted by irie View Post
    There is a Bill progressing through Parliament which will ensure that home educated children will be within the educational jurisdiction of Local Authorities. And not before time (imo).

    https://services.parliament.uk/bills...thorities.html
    Nothing is progressing since Johnson prorogued Parliament. Unless the government decides to keep them, all bills are dropped and have to start from the beginning again.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Breaker View Post
    Nothing is progressing since Johnson prorogued Parliament. Unless the government decides to keep them, all bills are dropped and have to start from the beginning again.
    Even if this Bill started from the beginning again it is very unlikely to be lost.

    I have a particular interest in this Bill but will not explain why.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    I think the confused should just fuck off and let the children enjoy their childhood

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by murcan View Post
    The realities of Western Society work against religious fundamentalists of all stripes. Not just Muslims.

    I can tell you that I don't want my tax dollars promoting religion of any strain. Comparative religion and history of religion, sure. But the actual history, not scripture as history.

    A couple of thousand years from now, when Manhattan is revealed by the receding waters, the truth of it's existence will not validate the existence of Spiderman.
    I don’t like religion and I like Islam less than most religions, but I wouldn’t try to ban everything I don’t like. These residents are Moslem and that ain’t a crime yet.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    I don’t like religion and I like Islam less than most religions, but I wouldn’t try to ban everything I don’t like. These residents are Moslem and that ain’t a crime yet.
    Perhaps we need to make clear that the UK is a secular country, and that people who will not accept that are unwelcome.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Jack View Post
    Perhaps we need to make clear that the UK is a secular country, and that people who will not accept that are unwelcome.
    What do you do with families that have been here 70 years, whom you somehow do not welcome?

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    Should Get Out More murcan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    I don’t like religion and I like Islam less than most religions, but I wouldn’t try to ban everything I don’t like. These residents are Moslem and that ain’t a crime yet.
    Who said anything about banning things other than the protesters, who may or may not be residents? I'm opposed to 'promoting' some things with my tax dollars. Starting with any philosophy which purports to be the sole sanctifier of human existence and moral rectitude without a single demonstration to that effect. Especially in the face of the demonstrably superior aggregate of philosophical thought that is Western civilization.

    Just thought I'd toss that in.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by murcan View Post
    Who said anything about banning things other than the protesters, who may or may not be residents? I'm opposed to 'promoting' some things with my tax dollars. Starting with any philosophy which purports to be the sole sanctifier of human existence and moral rectitude without a single demonstration to that effect. Especially in the face of the demonstrably superior aggregate of philosophical thought that is Western civilization.

    Just thought I'd toss that in.
    Ok I also think our secular logic makes more sense than their medieval madness, but they and I live here and I reckon we can rub along ok.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Homosexuality is a fact. Schools teach facts. I guess we’re all agreed on these things.

    Is the school going beyond LGB, into T? That a bit different because “trans” is something of an ideology.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    Ok I also think our secular logic makes more sense than their medieval madness, but they and I live here and I reckon we can rub along ok.
    You can "rub along OK" until their "medieval madness" impinges on your secular rights, what do you do then, let their "medieval madness" prevail?

    If not, what do you do about the fact that their medieval belief system is fundamentally contrary to our secular belief system?

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    Homosexuality is a fact. Schools teach facts. I guess we’re all agreed on these things.

    Is the school going beyond LGB, into T? That a bit different because “trans” is something of an ideology.
    Interesting observation. Trans is a real thing but having a trans "community" of exactly two in our state of almost a million people I wouldn't be able to evaluate the veracity of the existence of dozens of genders. I know one of them and he knows the other and they both are men who are transitioning to women. So we get one data set. Some men want to be women. I don't even know if they feel nature has made a mistake. They are just going to be women someday. Neither is struggling with his decision nor are the people around them. That may be what you get in a state so small that it is entirely entangled in the academic communities of 8 major schools and universities. Nine if you count the US Naval War College.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    inkyboy doesn't really understand what 'facts' are or how they come to be facts. he assumes, for example, that heterosexuality and homosexuality are facts in a scientific sense. because human reprooduction is dependent on large gametes (female) + small gametes (male). but if you take a look at different cultures over different eras (ancient greece, for eg) you see that this distinction between heterosexuality and homosexuality wasn't always present. they certainly knew what male and female are, and they knew how to make babies, but there was no sense that social relations had reflect biological ones in the way we do now. Human sexuality, as we now see it, is to a significant extent result of certain economic/social/technological factors.

    when inky talks about ideology what he means is the actions of trans activists, but the actions of trans activists (when ideologically driven) and the existence of trans people (a social fact) are not synonymous. it is entirely possible to explain the existence of trans people without engaging in brainwashing. (dualist woo)

    now i'm not gonna address the political ramifications of this stuff, because it's up to you how you process it/incorporate it into your belief systems (whether secualr or otherwise), but i would like to explain some of the philosophical issues at work when we talk about whether you can change sex/gender, that is if anyone cares...*


    * yeah, i know

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    I think what these protesters need to understand is that while they can maintain or even promote their own ideology, the childs education is a matter for the state. The state has a responsibility and a duty of care for all of it's citizens and I do not think this sits well with certain religious sects or cultures. Islam would have you believe that women are chattels or belongings and I am pretty sure they think their own children belong to them. That is not the case. They belong to the state...

    I will defend their right to protest but not if it starts to become harassment (which it probably did some time ago...). I defend anyones right to a personal view on religion too but I do not condone the brainwashing tactics these extremist religions rely on. We don't do that here, at least not on children. Take that shit elsewhere.

    Clearly there exists a phenomena we recognise as homosexuality. I am uncomfortable with the idea (mainly the nitty gritty sordid details) but perfectly fine with the notion; it is an expression of love after all. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks and try as I might, I can't abide the idea of two men having sex. I find the idea disgusting but I realise that is a failing on my part. Two women on the other hand, well, obviously I'd be up for that. Probably pay to watch if I was honest (and they were fit)

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    Default What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Children do not belong to the state ffs. You don’t half pen some tripe at times.

    Do you not have any children? I’m guessing not with that attitude.

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    Default Re: What takes precedence, respecting someone's beliefs or LGBT sensitivities?

    Respecting beliefs is not unconditional. Nazis and fascists have beliefs, and I disrespect them. And a lot of other shit, too.

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