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Thread: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

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    Question What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?


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    Carbon fibreís used in some helmets, as well as for knuckle and palm protectors in some gloves. But this video made me wonder if itís a good idea to use it: Carbon fibre does not do what you expect when you crush it. I wonder if this matters for motorcycle gloves and helmets?

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    Should Get Out More mrlongbeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Yup, that did exactly what I expected it to do.

    I shall avoid crashing into a hydraulic press at all costs.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Same as conspicuity 'aids', you need to decide what benefits you expect and what the alternatives are.

    Personally, I bought a CF helmet after I injured my neck (in a crash which cracked the fibreglass shell of the helmet I was wearing). The CF lid was lighter than the FG alternative of the same lid. Ironically, given my first line, the CF lid was black whereas the fibreglass lid that I would otherwise have bought was white ).

    As for benefits, the next replacement was grey because they didn't do a white one, and it was bought for comfort and practicality.
    Last edited by Horse; 08-12-19 at 18:46.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Itís the cracking and shattering thatís concerning, because who wants to have bits of carbon fibre picked out of their skin? Some Dainese and Held race gloves use a titanium cover over a carbon knuckle protector, and I wonder if this is to prevent the carbon fibre from shattering. Itís hard to tell whatís marketing versus whatís useful protection.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebedee View Post
    It’s the cracking and shattering that’s concerning, because who wants to have bits of carbon fibre picked out of their skin? Some Dainese and Held race gloves use a titanium cover over a carbon knuckle protector, and I wonder if this is to prevent the carbon fibre from shattering. It’s hard to tell what’s marketing versus what’s useful protection.
    I'm still waiting for what you're selling us here ? Every post of yours is a basis on a theme of scare-mongering ?

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    I was looking at some new gloves that had carbon fibre protectors, and weighing up whether gloves without carbon fibre would be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    I'm still waiting for what you're selling us here ?
    It's hard to convey tone of voice online, but I'm interested in how my clobber will work. Most of my kit's old and needs replacing, but I don't want to waste money on stuff that won't stand up well. I've seen a mate injured after his kit fell apart in quite a low speed crash while we were touring aboard, and I was the first-on-scene. I'd like my kit to do better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    Every post of yours is a basis on a theme of scare-mongering ?
    Be honest. It was my thread about Harley-Davidson that was scare-mongering, wasn't it?
    Last edited by Zebedee; 09-12-19 at 12:46.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebedee View Post
    Actually, I was looking at some new gloves that had carbon fibre protectors. I was weighing up whether or not gloves without carbon fibre would be better.



    It's hard to convey tone of voice online, but I'm interested in how my clobber will work. Most of my kit's old and needs replacing, but I don't want to waste money on stuff that won't stand up well. I've seen a mate's kit fall apart in quite a low speed crash while we were touring aboard, and I was the first-on-scene. I'd like my kit to do better.



    Be honest. It was my thread about Harley-Davidson that was scare-mongering, wasn't it?
    THAT interested though ? Really ? I get being mildly curious but you really do seem to be on some sort of a mission. If not, then i apologise, crack on...

    I have no idea what happens to C-F in a crash, but i do trust that Aplinestars or Held know

    IMO if you have a big crash it's going to come down as much to luck as to anything else... a bit of a kerb you hit/miss, a lampost you avoided or a 15T truck that didn't quite go over your head directly.... Whether your gloves have CF or your leathers are cow or kangaroo are likely to be the difference between you being here, or not.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    I guess a mix of bored and scientifically curious!

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    IMO if you have a big crash it's going to come down as much to luck as to anything else... a bit of a kerb you hit/miss, a lampost you avoided or a 15T truck that didn't quite go over your head directly.... Whether your gloves have CF or your leathers are cow or kangaroo are likely to be the difference between you being here, or not.
    Good point and I'm sure you're right in reality.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebedee View Post
    I was looking at some new gloves that had carbon fibre protectors, and weighing up whether gloves without carbon fibre would be better.
    Then you need to be looking at more realistic scenarios such as, https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01679X92901213 and try staying away from presses.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    I reckon if you hit your melon as hard as that press is pushing down then you are dead anyway I'd reckon.

    As for knuckles I should imagine that if the carbon shattered it'd probably still do it's jobs which is to take the first impact from you. Plus the force of your hand hitting the floor is gonna be nothing like that video

    If you really don't want to get hurt at all don't buy a bike. It's too much of a gamble. By all means research kit etc but I'll give you an example.

    My brothers mate is a bike test examiner. He is on test and stationary at a filter light behind the student. Car rear ends him. He is fine just trapped under the superscoot he's on wondering what the f*ck is going on. Only the woman panics and accelerates and drives over the top of him and the bike and then stops with him underneath. This results in cracked teeth, broken ribs, shattered pelvis and a leg facing the wrong way. In that instance maybe his lid makes a slight difference as he was in a top lid and it still cracked with the weight of a Skoda Octavia on it. Other than that full kit vs flip flops and pants would have made no odds. Uncommon accident sure but it happens.

    Yeah in a low side slide good kit will certainly help and hopefully prevent gravel rash at least but you could be at this forever and not be satisfied it's good enough. And then as Weeksy said it's pot luck you don't hit a curb/car/lamp post/bollard etc which makes most of it irrelevant anyway.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeksy View Post
    THAT interested though ? Really ? I get being mildly curious but you really do seem to be on some sort of a mission. If not, then i apologise, crack on...

    I have no idea what happens to C-F in a crash, but i do trust that Aplinestars or Held know

    IMO if you have a big crash it's going to come down as much to luck as to anything else... a bit of a kerb you hit/miss, a lampost you avoided or a 15T truck that didn't quite go over your head directly.... Whether your gloves have CF or your leathers are cow or kangaroo are likely to be the difference between you being here, or not.
    I'm not sure I'd actually trust the manufacturer to know - or if they do know, to give anyone the information needed to make a correct decision.

    Alpinestars and Dainese are two of the companies that lobbied to get the old CE standard for protective clothing watered down to the point where the new CE-A standard is achievable with a decent pair of denim jeans.

    But I do agree that we can spend far too much time agonising over 'the best' when the reality is that so long as protective clothing resists abrasion, the supposed impact protection side of its performance is of marginal benefit at best, for the reasons you say.

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    Thumbs down Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    SBF investigated the different manufacturers of bike leathers. Alpinestars refused two separate requests to give "their views on CE approval, how they stitch their products, the leather and armour used, and how they ensure quality."

    Quote Originally Posted by SBF
    Historically, Dainese hasnít really been one for CE-certifying its suits but perhaps in light of the law changing for 2018 (dictating that all motorcycle gear needs to be protective), they have decided to get ahead of the curve by certifying their range sooner rather than later.

    What we didnít get was a detailed description of how they manufacture their suits and the process involved, but what they sent us is below.

    • All Dainese suits for 2017 are CE approved to level 2
    • Other than the armour, their CE approval covers the zips which are now all covered with leather to avoid contact with the ground
    • Additionally, Dainese suits are now triple-stitched at the joints as specified by the CE standards


    This is all great and encouraging that Dainese have put in place more stringent standards for their suits from this year. However, whatís clear is that Dainese products prior to 2017 have not been triple-stitched in high impact areas or built to conform to the CE standards, which is concerning for one of the largest global suppliers of motorcycle clothing.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebedee View Post
    SBF investigated the different manufacturers of bike leathers. Alpinestars refused two separate requests to give "their views on CE approval, how they stitch their products, the leather and armour used, and how they ensure quality."
    I know of two top of the range Dainese suits (one was a Max Biaggi replica, the other a Scott Russell replica) that burst in low speed crashes where the rider hit the deck. No impact with anything hard was involved. One lost the front turning right at lights, the other locked up the front avoiding a woman backing out of a drive on a blind corner. In the first crash, the forearm seam opened from the inside of the elbow to the wrist, in the second it was the inside of the calf under the boot.

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    I know of £1000 suits that have been crashed 10+ times and I know of £250 Frank Thomas ones that have done the same and survived, but I've seen both do rubbish in crashes too. It depends on so so many parts in the equation

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    Default Re: What happens to carbon fibre in a crash?

    or built to conform to the CE standards, which is concerning for one of the largest global suppliers of motorcycle clothing.
    The standards are not mandatory, PPE new or old can be on the market without ever seeing a European Norm.

    (e)

    carry out appropriate examinations and tests, or have them carried out, to check whether, where the manufacturer has chosen to apply the solutions in the relevant harmonised standards, these have been applied correctly;

    (f)

    carry out appropriate examinations and tests, or have them carried out, to check whether, where the solutions in the relevant harmonised standards have not been applied, the solutions adopted by the manufacturer, including those in other technical specifications applied, meet the corresponding essential health and safety requirements and have been applied correctly.

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