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Thread: Norton winding up order

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    Default Norton winding up order


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    Second one they have had, always seem to be trying to raise money, i can not see
    them lasting. If they owe 300k in tax thats alot of bikes to shift.

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    Should Get Out More KungFooBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    They say they're owed that in tax rebate against R&D though.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Bet Iccy's glad he never ordered one.
    It can't be a surprise to anyone though, I can't see how they ever sold any bikes as they cost a lot and were built to order, if I'm buying a bike I want it right away.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    I wonder how the licencing agreement on the 650 twin motor is being handled. If its on a royalty basis, there's no income stream until the Asian customers are tooled up and selling bikes, which I understand is still a little way off.

    I think these guys are failry savvy with ways to maximise the cashflow / dodge bullets

    Anyone got a linky?

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    I beleive they have a stay of order until end of next month?

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by GiantPygmy View Post
    I wonder how the licencing agreement on the 650 twin motor is being handled. If its on a royalty basis, there's no income stream until the Asian customers are tooled up and selling bikes, which I understand is still a little way off.

    I think these guys are failry savvy with ways to maximise the cashflow / dodge bullets

    Anyone got a linky?
    Voluntary Petition to dissolve Norton Motorcycles Ltd https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history. One would have to dig into the accounts to determine whether it is signficant.

    Petition to dissolve Norton Motorcycles Ltd appears to have been presented by DHL in October https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3398136. Again you'd have to work out the company structure to determine whether this is signficant for the business.

    HMRC presented a winding up petition in March. A striking off action discountinued March 2019 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history. The same page shows Metro bank took a floating charge over Norton Motorcycle Hodings in June. DHL presented a winding up perition in October. Crowdfunding was proposed in November https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...-on-crowdcube/ and apparently dropped after an anonymous investor came up with 1m. There are some links to get started if anyone has the inclination for the research. I don't have the patience. The general implication is that they are short of money but apparently for now continuing.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    “HMRC’s barrister told top insolvency judge Judge Sebastian Prentis that because the debt had been reduced and the company was making payments, they were seeking an adjournment. He asked for 63 days for the outstanding amount to be settled?

    Norton’s financial director told the judge the company had 135,000 in research and development tax credits due, which were with HMRC for approval.

    Judge Prentis adjourned the hearing until February 12.”

    In full:

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/n...garner-3718951

    His Twitter account his now locked. Meaning you have to apply to follow. Lots of folks concerned about getting their deposits back.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by KorkyKat View Post

    His Twitter account his now locked. Meaning you have to apply to follow. Lots of folks concerned about getting their deposits back.
    If the bank has a floating charge, there seems every chance they would not. However it would be ludicrously unfair, as well as bad for tax revenues, if HMRC wound up a company which it has itself driven into cash flow crisis by failing to pay tax credits promptly. Could HMRC really be simultaneously so stubborn and stupid?

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    If the bank has a floating charge, there seems every chance they would not. However it would be ludicrously unfair, as well as bad for tax revenues, if HMRC wound up a company which it has itself driven into cash flow crisis by failing to pay tax credits promptly. Could HMRC really be simultaneously so stubborn and stupid?
    I wouldn’t give Norton the benefit of the doubt. They have had quite some financial history since 1975.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    So if Norton go under do Zongshen still have to pay royalties?

    https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...cc-norton-twin

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    More likely Zongshen will buy Norton.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by khd View Post
    more likely zongshen will buy norton.
    gpwm!

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by ink ink View Post
    I wouldn’t give Norton the benefit of the doubt. They have had quite some financial history since 1975.
    Since NVT went under the company has been through a few different incarnations, each time only keeping the name and a few old model rights. In fact this "Norton" only started when Garner bought the trademark from its German owner and the manufacturing licence for the 961 engine from its American designer. Since then their philosophy has seemed to be centred around selling high priced nostalgia. I was in their tent at the Classic TT one year and one of the salesmen was talking to a prospective punter telling him all about what a great investment it was. Not a great bike, a great investment.

    Garner came to the firm with a big financial package, gained from his other business importing Chinese fireworks. He's gone further than I expected, TBH, but at some stage all the pizzazz and TT activities have to be paid for, and if you're not shifting enough heavy metal or making a profit on each bike the clock is ticking. I'm not going to make any predictions about them as I haven't seen their accounts (and I doubt anyone else here has). Many companies walk a tightrope on cash flow and the previous winding-up order that got everybody all aerated was just a standard HMRC sent to companies that file their returns late. I wouldn't invest in them or put a deposit on one of their bikes personally, but that's just because their business model and product range isn't to my taste. Don't write them off too soon.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Garner always cuts it fine with tax flow. He might well be OK. This could be an act, a way to put pressure on someone to get yet another grant or subsidy or maybe to weasel out of a debt.

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    Default Re: Norton winding up order

    Quote Originally Posted by nick h. View Post
    Garner always cuts it fine with tax flow. He might well be OK. This could be an act, a way to put pressure on someone to get yet another grant or subsidy or maybe to weasel out of a debt.
    Maybe, maybe not...

    https://twitter.com/jm130tt/status/1...48001%3Fs%3D19

    Annotation 2020-01-17 215200.jpg

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