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Thread: Corona Virus

  1. #9721
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    Default Re: Corona Virus


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    Sav - Iím not anti NHS - but their approach to this has been poor. Sorry but it has. You canít get near them until you are dying, covid and other things.

    It seems if we look at Germany, both their government and health service had a better approach. I suspect like all the other small differences - these small things have compounded into the results we see.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonercat View Post
    Germany has one of the highest number of hospital beds per person in Europe, the UK has one of the lowest (or had when the virus first broke). I should imagine that played a major part in how the two health services reacted differently.
    Itís also funded massively differently. Try getting that through in the UK. Good luck with that.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    The thread started mid January of this year. I hope it ends soon.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    And I'm not stoicly defending the NHS- other health systems are far more advanced in many areas. Only a fool would think otherwise. However, and this is the bit that frustrates me, our overall boss is the SOS for health for the NHS. Policy is signed by that pen and you can be damned sure that any colouring outside the lines on big ticket items such as covid would have keen personal focus.

    It stands up that Germany can respond differently- they simply have more capacity across their entire health system.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless Rat View Post
    It’s also funded massively differently. Try getting that through in the UK. Good luck with that.
    IIRC something like 25-30% more funding than the UK.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless Rat View Post
    So the 300/500k deaths was a likely overestimate as well then, no?
    A fair expansion of my question, so irie may answer yours too (with the same aspect of was it based on incorrect assessment of data that existed then, or only in hindsight?).

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Savio Du Funk View Post
    And I'm not stoicly defending the NHS- other health systems are far more advanced in many areas. Only a fool would think otherwise. However, and this is the bit that frustrates me, our overall boss is the SOS for health for the NHS. Policy is signed by that pen and you can be damned sure that any colouring outside the lines on big ticket items such as covid would have keen personal focus.

    It stands up that Germany can respond differently- they simply have more capacity across their entire health system.
    The German health system is funded in an entirely different way to the UK's centrally allocated budgeting system. The point is that the health insurance payments go directly to health providers.

    https://international.commonwealthfu...tries/germany/

    Health insurance is mandatory for all citizens and permanent residents of Germany. It is provided by two systems, namely: 1) competing, not-for-profit, nongovernmental health insurance funds (“sickness funds”—there were 118 as of January 20161) in the statutory health insurance (SHI) system; and 2) substitutive private health insurance (PHI).
    Last edited by irie; 04-06-20 at 07:16. Reason: The point is ...

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    IIRC something like 25-30% more funding than the UK.
    Indeed, but a quite large contingent of “paid for” i.e. private services. Which from what I can gather - is greater than the 25-30% of funding.

    Germans also appear to take their health a bit more seriously than many in the U.K., again from what I am reading, not from any personal knowledge.

    Germans as we know, are ruthlessly efficient. I suspect their health service is very much the same. I’d love to know why this is, it’s clearly cultural at a pretty low level. I believe their dole service is pretty effective at getting people back to work with tailored, decreasing payouts. My understanding is they don’t make it a life choice to sit on your arse, as well as it being socially frowned on, unlike here, where for many, it’s a badge of honour.

    There is much we could learn from their systems tbh.
    Last edited by Wreckless Rat; 04-06-20 at 08:14. Reason: doh...

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless Rat View Post
    Germans also appear to take their health a bit more seriously than many in the U.K., again from what I am reading, not from any personal knowledge.
    Having lived in Germany for 13 years and recently had a German au pair live with us for 18 months, I agree with this completely. As a nation, we have forged a co-dependant relationship with the NHS and a lot of people feel entitled to exploit their lifestyles because their is the health safety net. Take extra risks, shirk responsibility. Riding like a dick because you've got full leathers and an expensive helmet , knowing that if you crash you'll have a better chance of being relatively unharmed, whereas the trick is to not ride like.a dick in the first place.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless Rat View Post
    Indeed, but a quite large contingent of “paid for” ie private services. Which from what I can’t gather - is greater than the 25-30% of funding.

    Germans also appear to take their health a bit more seriously than many in the U.K., again from what I am reading, not from any personal knowledge.

    Germans as we know, are ruthlessly efficient. I suspect their health service is very much the same. I’d love to know why this is, it’s clearly cultural at a pretty low level. I believe their dole service is pretty effective at getting people back to work with tailored, decreasing payouts. My understanding is they don’t make it a life choice to sit on your arse, as well as it being socially frowned on, unlike here, where for many, it’s a badge of honour.

    There is much we could learn from their systems tbh.
    Maybe our mistake was to celebrate being ‘better at war ‘ than them by creating the NHS instead of creating a ruthlessly efficient state socialist party...or maybe we should have saved all that war money and just invited them to take over. Other than the fact we would all be talking German and spying on our neighbours I think it could probably have benefited us all living under that nice Mr Hitler bloke .( of course certain sectors of society would be slightly disadvantaged by being gassed etc but there’s is always a price for utopia )

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Savio Du Funk View Post
    As a nation, we have forged a co-dependant relationship with the NHS and a lot of people feel entitled to exploit their lifestyles because their is the health safety net.
    Because it's free? Time to make people pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savio Du Funk View Post
    Take extra risks, shirk responsibility. Riding like a dick because you've got full leathers and an expensive helmet , knowing that if you crash you'll have a better chance of being relatively unharmed, whereas the trick is to not ride like.a dick in the first place.
    Nurburgring.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Because it's free? Time to make people pay.
    It's not free, we do pay for it.

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    Maybe our mistake was to celebrate being ‘better at war ‘ than them by creating the NHS instead of creating a ruthlessly efficient state socialist party...or maybe we should have saved all that war money and just invited them to take over. Other than the fact we would all be talking German and spying on our neighbours I think it could probably have benefited us all living under that nice Mr Hitler bloke .( of course certain sectors of society would be slightly disadvantaged by being gassed etc but there’s is always a price for utopia )

    I'm not quite sure how you have interpreted my post as such but...

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  19. #9734
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedge View Post
    Maybe our mistake was to celebrate being ‘better at war ‘ than them by creating the NHS instead of creating a ruthlessly efficient state socialist party...or maybe we should have saved all that war money and just invited them to take over. Other than the fact we would all be talking German and spying on our neighbours I think it could probably have benefited us all living under that nice Mr Hitler bloke .( of course certain sectors of society would be slightly disadvantaged by being gassed etc but there’s is always a price for utopia )
    Way to go, Mr Godwin

    There are comments up thread about people dobbing in their neighbours during lockdown

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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    A fair expansion of my question, so irie may answer yours too (with the same aspect of was it based on incorrect assessment of data that existed then, or only in hindsight?).
    Or may not.

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