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Thread: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperity

  1. #46
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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi


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    For a start, building an airtight (ish) building doesn't automatically mean you can't put opening windows into it. Having a decent standard of airtighteness means you have the choice about how much ventilation it gets.
    If the wind whistles through it all the time you don't have any choice other than how much heat you throw into it, thats a massive fail.

    Build it so the as much moisture as possible doesn't get into the frames and insulation cos that causes real problems. And also ensure that if any does get in its got a way out.
    When its all nice and airtight, make sure the sparkies and especially the plumbers seal up after they drill through the shell for cables and waste pipes.
    Check their work because theyre buggers for knackering buildings airtest results with unsealed holes.

    Theres something called Hygric buffer capacity which is worth reading up on but basically old buildings could hold a lot of moisture before it created a problem. They let air whistle through so even when they leaked water in, let moisture laden air into the walls they still managed to let that moisture laden air out.
    Modern buildings often have less hygric buffer capacity and are required to be far more efficient so require the builders to know a little more about their jobs.
    Sometimes thats a problem cos not all of them do and some will never learn it either. I'm quite good at making buildings, less great at putting up with willfully ignorant builders.


    Obviously theres more to it than I've just outlined, for a decent overview look up Matt Rissinger on Youtube cos his channel gives good information on a lot of it, be aware that he's based in Houston Texas so they use aircon a lot and they need the vapour membranes on the outside of the insulation, not the inside like in the UK where most of our homes require heating not cooling.

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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Heat recovery units have been around in domestic dwellings for years, the calcs for air changes, airflow passages are all in the building regs as are the energy usage requirements. The ongoing costs are minimal and maintence is usually an annual filter wash/change with a rare ducting clean.

    A well designed dwelling doesn't actually need any form of heating at all or for any windows to open (other than as fire exits).

    A few years back the MOD came up with a design for modular accommodation blocks, a trial one was built and the tested. The inspectors rejected the ventilation fan because it didn't meet airflow requirements, which was odd as it was a well known unit backed by test reports.

    A friend of mine was called in to investigate, whilst in the room measuring the fan's flow he could hear a bubbling sound, the MOD blokey laughed and put the plug in the sink to stop the 'plumbing issue', the fans performance got a lot worse. Open the door and the fan met requirements, oops, somebody forgot the basics - air in has to match air out. That kind of thing still happens today, got to love architects.

  3. #48
    Should Get Out More saga_lout's Avatar
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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    I read the article.
    I saw a theory (or maybe more).
    I didn't see any proof.

  4. #49
    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by crust View Post
    Heat recovery units have been around in domestic dwellings for years, the calcs for air changes, airflow passages are all in the building regs as are the energy usage requirements. The ongoing costs are minimal and maintence is usually an annual filter wash/change with a rare ducting clean.

    A well designed dwelling doesn't actually need any form of heating at all or for any windows to open (other than as fire exits).

    A few years back the MOD came up with a design for modular accommodation blocks, a trial one was built and the tested. The inspectors rejected the ventilation fan because it didn't meet airflow requirements, which was odd as it was a well known unit backed by test reports.

    A friend of mine was called in to investigate, whilst in the room measuring the fan's flow he could hear a bubbling sound, the MOD blokey laughed and put the plug in the sink to stop the 'plumbing issue', the fans performance got a lot worse. Open the door and the fan met requirements, oops, somebody forgot the basics - air in has to match air out. That kind of thing still happens today, got to love architects.
    That's just reminded me of one of the messes at an RAF base. I'd open one door, then another set of double doors would fly open, as the air in/out balance was incorrect.

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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    That's just reminded me of one of the messes at an RAF base. I'd open one door, then another set of double doors would fly open, as the air in/out balance was incorrect.
    Thats usually more down to the fire and smoke seals in the doors.
    The ceiling tileare s often ok in a small room right upto the point when the seals are put into the casings, then the door closers need adjusting and the bloke who put the ceiling tiles in has to come back and clip them*.
    Obviously you can't clip every tile down cos you cant get above the last one with the clips. Good job light and fire alarm sensors have plywood patresses and are heavier then.

    Usually very little to do with air in and out, more down to fire precautions that actually work.

    *I imagine somewhere there's a sparky who knows how to re-clip a ceiling tile after they have ratched about in the ceiling but I've never seen one yet.

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    Should Get Out More Ant's Avatar
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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by demographic View Post
    Thats usually more down to the fire and smoke seals in the doors.
    The ceiling tileare s often ok in a small room right upto the point when the seals are put into the casings, then the door closers need adjusting and the bloke who put the ceiling tiles in has to come back and clip them*.
    Obviously you can't clip every tile down cos you cant get above the last one with the clips. Good job light and fire alarm sensors have plywood patresses and are heavier then.

    Usually very little to do with air in and out, more down to fire precautions that actually work.

    *I imagine somewhere there's a sparky who knows how to re-clip a ceiling tile after they have ratched about in the ceiling but I've never seen one yet.
    No, it was the air in/out balance. It was so bad that there'd be another set of doors which would not close fully due to the flow.

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    Should Get Out More icarus1859's Avatar
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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by demographic View Post

    *I imagine somewhere there's a sparky who knows how to re-clip a ceiling tile after they have ratched about in the ceiling but I've never seen one yet.
    They didn't teach us that in college

    I have almost zero experience in domestic construction - how do you manage CO2 levels in well sealed houses?

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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by demographic View Post
    *I imagine somewhere there's a sparky who knows how to re-clip a ceiling tile after they have ratched about in the ceiling but I've never seen one yet.
    Mew neither but there is a positive side though. At least you always know which is the loose tile from the dirty finger marks on it.

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    Default Re: We now have the proof: greening the economy doesn't come at the price of prosperi

    Quote Originally Posted by icarus1859 View Post
    They didn't teach us that in college

    I have almost zero experience in domestic construction - how do you manage CO2 levels in well sealed houses?
    There's heat recovery units, even passive heat recovery units that dont require energy to run. Or some still have vents anyway.
    All that might seem like its pointless doing it at all but its controlable and not just blowing right through.

    In order for the insulation to work properly and not get interstitial condensation in it we have to make sure that moisture laden air get into the frames.

    The main bad areas are the same as in any building. Kitchens and bath/shower rooms and like in any they require a bit of extra airflow through the air bandling unit.
    And a lot of my work is schools, colleges, hospitals pubs, nightclubs and the like.
    Most of my work is in commercial properties, I sometimes do housebashing but try to avoid it.

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