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Thread: Airbags

  1. #1
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    Default Airbags


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    Apologies for generating a new thread. I've had a look around and most of the airbag threads are somewhat ageing.

    A colleague at work has one of these (url pulled as I'm too new) google: SPIDI NECK DPS AIRBAG VEST and reckons it's saved his head and neck once already. Looking around the three main contenders are Dainese D-Air (street) in my case, the Spidi neck jobby and the Hit Air. They all seem to have their pros and cons (and let's just set aside price for the moment).



    The spidi is cable operated and focuses on protecting the neck, it looks to be the most comfortable and most "compatible" with other kit. (url etc) google Spidi DPS Airbag Motorcycle.

    Pros:
    • Simple to use
    • Comfortabe
    • Easy to Don
    • Compatible with most kit
    • Price (cheapest)


    Cons:
    • Protects neck only
    • Cable operation might not fire (my mate at work had to kick the bike away
    • Inflation time, depending on who you believe 200msecs might be too long



    The next is the Hit Air which comes in all *sorts* of flavours. Again, I'd probably be interested in the vest stylee one. For instance, (url pulled as I'm too new) Google: Hitair bike vest

    Pros:
    • Simple to use
    • Comfortabe
    • Easy to Don
    • Compatible with most kit
    • Price (Middle Cheap)
    • Protects spine, hips, lower back & neck
    • Used by various police forces


    Cons:
    • Cable operated
    • Inflate time
    • Cable operation might not fire (my mate at work had to kick the bike away
    • Limited UK dealer support, their main website is in broken English


    ...and last in my lineup but not least, Dainese D-Air (url etc) Google: Dainese - D-air - D-air street. Looks like the most technically capable system and consists of the vest or suit and a sensor system installed on the bike, so no jumping between machines without more hardware.

    Pros:
    • Simple to use, no need to even attach cable
    • Comfort?
    • Easy to Don
    • Compatible with most kit
    • Protects spine, hips, lower back & neck


    Cons:
    • Complex kit, longevity of hardware unknown (more complex, more to go wrong)
    • Cost, unknown but will likely cost more than a gold bucket of diamonds, the suit costs £2.5k for the base model but it is a whole suit
    • D-Air Street seems to have limited UK availability (i.e none)
    • No switching between bikes without more kit



    So what do people think? Anyone got any of this stuff and had a real world off?

    Cheers,
    T

  2. #2
    Should Get Out More dickymint's Avatar
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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxingmonk View Post




    So what do people think?
    Don't crash

    Welcome to TRC.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Airbags

    Welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxingmonk View Post
    already
    That's scary if it infers he's anticipating needing it again . . . See DM's comment (albeit it;s not always your choice).

    You could also point him at the Leatt brace Leatt® - Engineered for Performance. Protective Sports Gear


    I had a neck-wrecking crash a few years back. I landed almost exactly as shown in the graphic on the HitAir site . . . It might well have reduce - or even eliminated - the long-term injury I suffered.

    However good the Leatt is, I think an integrated airbag jacket is a far more practical and unobtrusive option for most riders.

    The Ride: Survive a Fatal Crash

    Would I wear one? Yes.

    have I bought one? Err . . . . No

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    A Bit Bored Lake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Airbags

    If I had one, I just know I'd get off the bike and walk away, with a sudden hiss of air!
    If people forget to put their stand up (or down!), forget to do their helmet up, forget their disc lock etc etc - how likely to remember to disconnect the cable from the bike before walking away!

    See http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/stayi...something.html

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    If I had one, I just know I'd get off the bike and walk away, with a sudden hiss of air!
    Theory is, I believe, that the pin needs a fairly substantial tug . . .

    Perhaps if you were running away from the bike? Still, if you were wanting the 'body builder' look to impress the chicks . . .

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    Should Get Out More Tomcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Airbags

    As Horse said, there is a fairly low cost option available already which is the Leatt brace. It's widely used in MX and thank <deity of choice> my son was wearing one when he had this crash. He's the one upside down with the bike about to land on him...

    It's a very effective neck brace which is proven in use but it isn't particularly unobtrusive or easy to stash when you're off the bike. I can't really comment on the effectiveness of airbag suits though they have never struck me as all that effective, partly for reasons of activation time and partly because they don't provide as much support as something like a hard plastic Leatt. But you pays your money and takes your choice.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Welcome!



    That's scary if it infers he's anticipating needing it again . . . See DM's comment (albeit it;s not always your choice).

    You could also point him at the Leatt brace Leatt® - Engineered for Performance. Protective Sports Gear


    I had a neck-wrecking crash a few years back. I landed almost exactly as shown in the graphic on the HitAir site . . . It might well have reduce - or even eliminated - the long-term injury I suffered.

    However good the Leatt is, I think an integrated airbag jacket is a far more practical and unobtrusive option for most riders.

    The Ride: Survive a Fatal Crash

    Would I wear one? Yes.

    have I bought one? Err . . . . No
    Might get one of those leatt braces. They look pretty cool.
    Sure, money's money, but money can be replaced, necks can't .

    EDIT: THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FUCKING QUID?!?!

    Last edited by RS250-Squid; 28-03-13 at 17:12.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Interesting question. There are some amazing postive reports from people who have used them for real:
    Just crashed while wearing my SaferMotoMLS Airvest/Motoport Excellent results - ADVrider

    Interestingly, I've not yet read a bad report about an airbag used in anger. Perhaps they really are the dog's danglies? Here are some uninformed thoughts from someone with no expertise in this subject:

    - Spidi DPS: It looks like if offers the best neck protection, certainly more than the Hit Air and Dainese airbags. Judging by every episode of Emergency Bikers, it must be vital to immobilise the neck in an accident, so the Spidi DPS would be in the running for me. (And Spidi's Venture DPS jacket looks like a very discrete way of having a great jacket with an airbag.) I think the black Spidi DPS vest looks cool too.

    - Hit Air: It's been out for ages, so should have been well tested in use. More comprehensive coverage than the Spidi, so tempting. I found the reports on Advrider.com quite convincing.

    - Dainese: OK, the Street version might not be out yet, but the Race version has obviously been tested in anger. It certainly works, as you can see from the TV footage. No cable = alledgedly quicker for the airbag to fire, plus it's more discrete. Comprehensive coverage of torso and neck. Personally, I like the look of the vest too. I think the D-Air Street is due to launch this May. It will cost around a grand all-in (vest, plus bike hardware). More if you want the airbag in a full jacket, but most people won't need that. If I had a grand burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be very tempted.

    - Clover Crossover airbag jacket - I can't add to WebBikeWorld's news:
    Clover Crossover Airbag Jacket - webBikeWorld

    - Helite: HELITE Motorcycle airbag jackets for light but effective protection - Helite Motorcycle airbag jacket
    Currently being reviewed by Simon Weir at Ride magazine. So we'll see what he says ...

    I guess this is the start of things to come. I expect we'll all be wearing an airbag one day, wondering how we managed before
    Last edited by Zebedee; 03-04-13 at 19:53.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    The question in answer to anecdotal "this saved my bacon" stories is "how do you know that's what it did?"

    Manufacturers' claims are worth taking with a big pinch of salt, editorial in magazines is often (though not always) advertising by another name and there's no guarantee that the garment we see the MotoGP rider crash in bears any resemblance to what's sold over the counter.

    I seem to remember it was Frank Thomas who were caught out by an early issue of RiDE when they supplied a race-spec suit that had been hand-made for a group leathers test. It was so well made the tester got suspicious, bought an off-the-shelf suit that was supposedly the same one to compare it with. Predictably, it didn't.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Yes, it was FT; the suit they supplied was IIRC better, thicker, hide, with overlaid panels instead of inset, and better stitching.

    However, just spent over an hour reading three dozen or more pages of the AdvR forum, and one important point which may be a major 'plus' for the Hit Air kit was almost lost . . .

    One poster described the inflated bag as a 'portable bear hug'; two others mention initially, after crashes, thinking they were injured because they couldn't move.

    So it may be that not only could they reduce neck injury during impact, they might also give important immobilisatiin after.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    Yes, it was FT; the suit they supplied was IIRC better, thicker, hide, with overlaid panels instead of inset, and better stitching.

    However, just spent over an hour reading three dozen or more pages of the AdvR forum, and one important point which may be a major 'plus' for the Hit Air kit was almost lost . . .

    One poster described the inflated bag as a 'portable bear hug'; two others mention initially, after crashes, thinking they were injured because they couldn't move.

    So it may be that not only could they reduce neck injury during impact, they might also give important immobilisatiin after.
    Hm. I'll have a word with our bike race attending paramedics... they've picked a lot of BSB riders out of the gravel over the years, they might well have a thought on both airbag jackets and neck braces. I know they hate speed humps because if the rider ends up on their back, they end up with their head at a funny angle which is bad both when you're lying there post-accident and for anyone attempting to perform CPR.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    I honestly doubt you'd have the time to plough through the two AdvR threads, but the current or -ex US distributor for Hit Air races and also supplies the 'vest' versions to racers. That said, racing crashes may not always mirror road events. However, if they trigger quickly enough (depending on lanyardlength + 0.25s inflation, they might offer useful chest protection (within limits) which, for most kit, is a poorly-protected area.

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Be interested to hear their comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    I know they hate speed humps because if the rider ends up on their back, they end up with their head at a funny angle which is bad both when you're lying there post-accident and for anyone attempting to perform CPR.
    Timely place to (re?)post this:
    INJURY article

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by slowsider View Post
    Be interested to hear their comments.



    Timely place to (re?)post this:
    INJURY article
    And WRT to my previous posts on how the airbags might provide additional protection: Motorcyclists sustaining thoracic spinal damage more frequently than cervical

    In my case the damage was caused by hyperflexion due to landing on the back of my head . . .

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    Default Re: Airbags

    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    The question in answer to anecdotal "this saved my bacon" stories is "how do you know that's what it did?"
    The only way to prove causality would be through a prospective, randomised trial. Even this wouldn't be wholly conclusive, because (i) there would be lots of confounding factors and (ii) randomised trials have poor generalisability.

    Anecdotal reports do have some value. In effect, they are in some ways like part of a case controlled study. Consequently, I believe anecdotal reports aren't without value.

    In practise, it may not be possible to design and undertake a conclusive trial about airbag effectiveness. For example, such a trial might have too many confounding factors to make it feasible to analyse.

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