Airbags

[Horse]

I think that Aerostich deliberately used non CE 'padding' because it gave greater area coverage. Or it might have been another manufacturer

[Zebedee]

Horse weighs quite a bit.

I say, that’s a bit personal. It’s nothing a little diet and exercise wouldn’t fix

[Zebedee]

I'd like to see their tests

I haven’t seen German ADAC test data, but how’s your French?

http://sra.asso.fr/sites/default/fil...on_motards.pdf

It’s an old study and airbag technologies have moved on significantly since 2012. But worth reading as there’s a dearth of studies into motorcyclists’ airbags.

[mrlongbeard]

I haven’t seen German ADAC test data, but how’s your French?

http://sra.asso.fr/sites/default/fil...on_motards.pdf

It’s an old study and airbag technologies have moved on significantly since 2012. But worth reading as there’s a dearth of studies into motorcyclists’ airbags.

Ah, my objection was more to do with ADAC's conclusions, I don't believe them.

But onto this one;
OK, so they used cadavers for the testing.
Testing was conducted at 40kph.
The did computer modelling up to 60 kph
At 60kph the impact force is equivalent of a fall from 3 stories
Conclusion 1; intervention item too long on tethered vests, more research needed and the provisional standard needs work.
Conclusion 2; an airbag vest provides more protection than a shirt alone, it is necessary to promote the wearing of equipment.

In summary, a typical French research paper, a day late, a dollar short, no real conclusions, and skewed towards French manufacturers.
Pretty much sums up my dealingd with French notified bodies.

[Horse]

I say, that’s a bit personal. It’s nothing a little diet and exercise wouldn’t fix

They missed a comma.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Please-Pass...dp/B00TOGOZVG#

[Horse]

Buy a jacket, rent the electronics:

https://mag.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/new...ag-collection/

[Zebedee]

https://mag.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/new...ag-collection/

I think these airbags will sell well because of the price. The RST range of airbag-equipped jackets is much cheaper than the MotoGP-tested airbags, and RST should do well from TT riders like Ian Hutchinson and the TT travelling marshalls wearing their airbag suits. Perhaps data from Isle of Man crashes will be more relevant to road riding than data from MotoGP crashes?

2020 could be the start of motorcycle airbags becoming mainstream, with several brands using the In&Motion airbag: Held, Furygan and Klim. The system's inexpensive compared to the D-Air and Tech-Air systems, although the Tech-Air system covers far more of the torso and shoulders.

Meanwhile, Gloucestershire Police has equipped their motorcycle riders with the Alpinestars Tech-Air vest system in BKS jackets.

I know some will say that we should have more evidence about airbags. While I agree, it's often the case that new technologies need to come into use before significant research is done on them. As more riders start using airbags, then I trust we'll see more independent research into the technology.

[Bigyin]

Meanwhile, Gloucestershire Police has equipped their motorcycle riders with the Alpinestars Tech-Air vest system in BKS jackets.

I know some will say that we should have more evidence about airbags. While I agree, it's often the case that new technologies need to come into use before significant research is done on them. As more riders start using airbags, then I trust we'll see more independent research into the technology.

If BKS are doing that for one force it wont be long till others follow as BKS supply many forces ...... my only concern with plod wearing airbag jackets is getting into a scrap off the bike and the airbag deploys through an impact or assault during it


ps.....are you studying for something to do with PPE as you have loads of threads on various aspects of protective clothing ??

[Horse]

...... my only concern with plod wearing airbag jackets is getting into a scrap off the bike and the airbag deploys through an impact or assault during it

Perhaps they could do a law enforcement special 'superhero' version, turn green like this incredible hulk.

[slowsider]

The All Coppers Air Bag logo will be worth it.

[Horse]

The All Coppers Air Bag logo will be worth it.

It'd be cheaper just to buy trafpols extra donuts

[The Spin Doctor]

I think these airbags will sell well because of the price.

Hmm.

£120 a year for the electronics. Whether that's a 'good' price depends on your budget. For me, that's a sizeable chunk of cash every year. For others, it may be a fairly trivial expense.

On the other hand, it does stop you being trapped with an obsolete controller. The pace of development is pretty rapid, so I'd be wary of spending a lot of cash on a box that's not going to work with a new jacket in a few years time (rather like those with some of the earlier Smart TVs are now discovering that software updates are turning off the smart features).

I know some will say that we should have more evidence about airbags. While I agree, it's often the case that new technologies need to come into use before significant research is done on them. As more riders start using airbags, then I trust we'll see more independent research into the technology.

Evidence is really where everything should start. But I accept that there are practicalities in collecting it, bearing in mind that it's a bit unethical to repeat the chicken -vs- windscreen test with a real motorcyclist with / without airbag.

What I really object to is the promotion of unproven technology as a 'lifesaver' by manufacturers.

We had exactly the same issue with day riding lights and hi-vis clothing. Thanks to the 'it's obvious bright is better' conclusion drawn by road safety organisations on dubious evidence, and their subsequent promotion as conspicuity aids, the manufacturers leapt on the band wagon and have been producing clothing and auxiliary lights with no evidence that they produce the 'safety benefits' being claimed.

But as a result we have a generation of riders who treat hi-vis and DRLs as a forcefield, then adopt a pained expression when they discover "sorry mate, I didn't see you". I can see exactly the same happening with airbag jackets being sold as a solution to wrapping yourself around a tree. Whether the TT will offer any evidence for their effectiveness I doubt. The impacts are too hard. We're back to what constitutes a 'survivable crash', and the lack of transparency from the manufacturers of airbags (and body armour generally come to that).

And of course, there's one other problem. You're selling to the already risk-averse. I can see airbag jackets becoming de rigeur for the BMW GS crew, and they really aren't the riders who need them.

The high risk riders are youngsters and inexperienced riders generally riding in an urban environment and having low speed impacts. They're the ones who are most likely to benefit, yet the least likely to be a) able to afford them b) likely to wear them.

[Zebedee]

If you can test helmets and body armour, I don't see why you can't test airbags.

It transpires German's ADAC did their own airbag testing, e.g. here's some footage from ADAC testing of the D-Air system. Let's hope we get more independent testing now that airbag sales look set to inflate

What I really object to is the promotion of unproven technology as a 'lifesaver' by manufacturers.

We had exactly the same issue with day riding lights and hi-vis clothing.

I agree 100% with you. I've seen a bunch of my bike group turn up wearing a sea of hi-viz, then go for a ride along country lanes surrounded by fields of rapeseed and lime-coloured foliage

If the BMW GS crew adopt new technology, then sales of airbags will increase and eventually prices will drop enough for more riders to adopt them. Moreover, as airbags start to become mainstream, I expect we'll get more research about airbag jackets.

Although the conditions aren't the same as normal road riding, I think the Isle of Man TT will be helpful for evolving the algorithms used in the airbags. Also, no manufacturer want's to see a rider fatally injured while wearing their airbag during the TT; it's an incentive for manufacturers to further improve their airbag tech.

[The Spin Doctor]

I agree 100% with you. I've seen a bunch of my bike group turn up wearing a sea of hi-viz, then go for a ride along country lanes surrounded by fields of rapeseed and lime-coloured foliage

My favourite! :rolleyes:

If the BMW GS crew adopt new technology, then sales of airbags will increase and eventually prices will drop enough for more riders to adopt them.

Of course, it might not work that way. Sometimes the 'I want one too' factor serves to inflate prices. Look at the truly silly prices of m/c GPS units.

Moreover, as airbags start to become mainstream, I expect we'll get more research about airbag jackets.

And that may not work as expected either.

Once something is widely accepted on anecdotal evidence, it's not unknown for the research to be commissioned to 'prove' what everyone already thinks.

Although the conditions aren't the same as normal road riding, I think the Isle of Man TT will be helpful for evolving the algorithms used in the airbags. Also, no manufacturer want's to see a rider fatally injured while wearing their airbag during the TT; it's an incentive for manufacturers to further improve their airbag tech.

We're back to what constitutes an airbag wearer survivable accident. You're right that no manufacturer would want to see a fatal crash involving a rider with their airbag. They've been adopted in MotoGP because they help prevent injury from up and down highsides, not lateral crashes with hard objects.

[Zebedee]

For those who like German films, here's more ADAC video footage

It transpires German's ADAC did their own airbag testing, e.g. here's some footage from ADAC testing of the D-Air system. Let's hope we get more independent testing now that airbag sales look set to inflate

Also, here's some video footage of ADAC testing the Hit-Air airbag. Having seen ripcord-based airbags before, I was interested where ADAC attached the tether to the bike. Riders I've seen with one of these airbags have tethered it towards the front of the bike, but ADAC attached the tether towards the rear. I wonder how much difference the choice of attachment point makes?

As comments point out about the Hit-Air test, the rider's tailbone takes a big impact but isn't protected.